2021 YZ450 setup a Tad stiff

[CaptainKnobby]

Had my shock and Forks Revalved and the Tuner done exactly how I wanted it except its a Tad to stiff.  Meaning .......it is hard for me to go through turns.  Seems like the Forks doesnt want to settle in ruts anf through a turn.  Shock isnt so bad.....I adjusted the High Speed compression 2 full turns out and the Low compression at 17 clicks out and rebound at 18 clicks out.    It could be a tad softer so the rear will settle through a turn but I make do.  Rear sag is at 106mm with 40mm free sag.  If I go to 110mm with 45mm free sag it does the best here.

I have a pic of the Forks and where the zip tie is at is the farthest the forks have gone.  I am having trouble using up those last 3 and a half inchs of travel.  I even took out 10ml fluid from outer tube but still this is as far as i can get them to go even with the compression at 18 clicks out.

My springs in Forks are stock which he said rated at 4.9kg but my rear spring is a 5.633kg and he said the springs were ok for my weight of 170lbs according to the math he said.

I like how the bike is setup.  Its very plush with a stiff sided feel.  Jump landings feel phenomenal .......meaning.....whrn 8 lanf from a big jump ir feels so plush and like i never even landed.  This was what i liked with the stock setup and wanted him to keep.  I just had him make it track better through ruts which it does but seems just a tad top stiff when cornering through a turn.....needs to settle in a bit more.

If i got a rate lighter in fork springs like 4.8kg would it work better for what im wanting which is for the forks to use up that last 3.5inches of travel?  

Rear i can get by with by making softer with the high speed compression. 

 

[mog]

You need to soften it a lot , take another 20cc out and turn out the compressor some more 

[CaptainKnobby]

25 minutes ago, mog said:

You need to soften it a lot , take another 20cc out and turn out the compressor some more 

I will do that!  Im gonna make a lap here in a minute with the Forks compression clickers at full open @20 clicks out an rebound at 14 out just to follow the bumps.

[redrider144]

3 hours ago, CaptainKnobby said:

My springs in Forks are stock which he said rated at 4.9kg but my rear spring is a 5.633kg and he said the springs were ok for my weight of 170lbs according to the math he said.

I think you mean .49 kg/mm for the fork springs?  That might be stiff for 170 lbs.

Edit:  Nevermind, stock is .51 kg/mm

Edited January 17, 2021 by redrider144

[CaptainKnobby]

2 hours ago, redrider144 said:

I think you mean .49 kg/mm for the fork springs?  That might be stiff for 170 lbs.

Edit:  Nevermind, stock is .51 kg/mm

Mine came stock with .49kg.  Tuner rated them.  He said sometimes they come with either .51kg  .50 or .49. And mine were .49

[CaptainKnobby]

3 hours ago, mog said:

You need to soften it a lot , take another 20cc out and turn out the compressor some more 

I made several laps withe Compression clickers turned all the out to 20 cl8cks out and the forks maybe went down about a half inch at most.   However when i turned the compression out to 20 i  tirned the rebound out 2 clicks more just so the front wouldnt wash out the rebound was at 14 cl8cks out.

[redrider144]

22 minutes ago, CaptainKnobby said:

Mine came stock with .49kg.  Tuner rated them.  He said sometimes they come with either .51kg  .50 or .49. And mine were .49

I don't have any experience with a YZ450F.  But .49kg just seems like a lot.  My '20 250FX lists at .47kg and those are the best forks I've ever ridden, both on MX tracks & single track trails.  Granted the 450 is heavier but I wouldn't think by 2 spring rates.

I weigh the same as you, 170.

[CaptainKnobby]

9 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

I don't have any experience with a YZ450F.  But .49kg just seems like a lot.  My '20 250FX lists at .47kg and those are the best forks I've ever ridden, both on MX tracks & single track trails.  Granted the 450 is heavier but I wouldn't think by 2 spring rates.

I weigh the same as you, 170.

Before this 2021 yz450 I had a 2016 yz450d.  Dave Johnson built me a smart Performance kit that i installed in it with stock springs.   I was good for about 4yrs but i had gotten faster and the setup became to soft for my liking. 

I had the Tuner than done this 2021 to redo the setup on my 2016 that had the stock springs on it.  He made it stiffer and I really liked it alot.  I sold ot after a year and bought this 2021 YZ450.  I believe tuners can valve around the springs.  However on this 2021  in the stock set up felt real good off of jump landings .....it was just the turns .....it wanted to stand up around them.  

So I had this 5.633 rear spring that i bought from Factory connection which was an ALS 57.kg spring but the tuner rated it to be actually a 56.33kg. I pit it on the 2021 before my revalve and it really really helped balance the bike out from the 59.kg rear spring that was on it.  

Only thing was the Forks seemed to not track through a rut without teying to pish through it an climb up out of the rut.   

I told the tuner about this and told him I liked how the 2021 felt off jump landings (real Plush)  but told him that in the rits it wouldnt track strainght that it wanted to pish through them an climb out.  Also the front felt to busy and nervous with the forks compression at like 11 out and Rebound at 13 clicks out.  

So i got it to where i could ride it with the forks compression at 10 out and Rebound at 6 clicks out.    I told him that when he revalved it to keep the plushness like on jump landings and kinda make it on the stiffer side.  I guess he definitely got that.  

I just think it needs just a little something done to it to soften it up a tad on the front.  I believe i can get by with the rear tje way it is but it could be just a tad softer also. 

[mog]

2 spring rates upon a 250 is the minimum,the 450 is a problem to control pitch and yaw 

 

The bikes biggest problem is how it handles it's weight , it's a lot of mass to control 

[CaptainKnobby]

I talked with my Tuner about situation.  He said sounds like I like the valving aspect of it but just need to get down farther in the stroke on Forks.  He said he put 360ml in Outer tubes and told me to take 40ml out since I already took 10ml out of them.  He said that should soften them alot and bring the clickers back.     

So Mog you did mention "a lot"......   However he did say that if that doesnt help me get farther down then may have to look at lighter spring rate......But says that should work.

I also asked him about my race sag being at 110 with 45 free sag.  He said thats a little much but not all the way out of the Ball park.   He said lets do the 40ml less in Forks first b4 we do anything else cause we dont want to make the bike mad......so we try one change at a time.

Reckon I can get by without having to get lighter springs?       I do have a rear spring that is a 54kg  which would be two rates lighter than what i have on it now.  Right now I have the 56.33kg on it.

I dont have any spare Fork springs so I would have to order new ones for that.

[redrider144]

41 minutes ago, CaptainKnobby said:

He said he put 360ml in Outer tubes and told me to take 40ml out since I already took 10ml out of them.  He said that should soften them alot and bring the clickers back.     

Generally speaking, oil level mainly affects the final 1/3 of travel.  More oil means less air, hence the effective compression ratio of air volume changes.

That will work on getting your last few inches of travel useful.   Not sure it's gonna help the front settle down in corners though.

[mog]

32 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

Generally speaking, oil level mainly affects the final 1/3 of travel.  More oil means less air, hence the effective compression ratio of air volume changes.

That will work on getting your last few inches of travel useful.   Not sure it's gonna help the front settle down in corners though.

It will have minimal change on corners

 

 

[mog]

33 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

Generally speaking, oil level mainly affects the final 1/3 of travel.  More oil means less air, hence the effective compression ratio of air volume changes.

That will work on getting your last few inches of travel useful.   Not sure it's gonna help the front settle down in corners though.

The shock spring isn't far off if you  use 105mm

 

Why 110? 

 

It's worth trying less oil 

[DEATH_INC.]

Check the fork spring preload too. If it's stock you can probably reduce it 2-3mm at least, it makes more difference than you think. Your tuner may have to do this, it usually involves machining a bit. Reduce the oil volume, and even drop the forks a little through the clamps.

[CaptainKnobby]

1 hour ago, mog said:

The shock spring isn't far off if you  use 105mm

 

Why 110? 

 

It's worth trying less oil 

 At 105mm it feels like when you go through a turn the rear doesn't want to squat any........Like you are riding high.

With 110 sag I feel more squat in the rear.  Like when I go through a sharp turn with a rut, the rear squats and lays into the rut better.  I have a Race Tech 5.4kg rear spring Im tempted to put on an try.  But the tuner said just try the reduced oil amount in forks first and do one change at a time.

Afyer i got to thinking about what he said.......about the valving......it may be a little stiff.....cause he did mention that he may have to take some shims off and thats when we were talking about my rear Sag being at 110mm.  

I may be wrong....but my thinking is.....if tou want to corner good,whether it be a sharp turn or a sweeping turn, you want the Forks and shock to give in enough to allow you to go through the turn.

In my case..... at the moment it feels like the forks and the shock isnt staying down in the lower part of the travel long enough for me to execute the whole turn......it momentarily does but then starts to get back up in the upper part of the stroke b4 the turn is complete and rides high in the rear and pushs with the front.

That is why Im at 110mm sag on rear for more squat and  hoping that the reduced oil amount in forks will help me get lower in the stroke when coming in Hot into a turn

[mog]

You could try the softer spring and less oil in the front at the same time ,it's free 

Edited January 18, 2021 by mog

[redrider144]

18 minutes ago, CaptainKnobby said:

But the tuner said just try the reduced oil amount in forks first and do one change at a time.

One change at a time is important, yes.

[CaptainKnobby]

4 hours ago, mog said:

You could try the softer spring and less oil in the front at the same time ,it's free 

I found out why my sag was way off. Back during Halloween at Muddycreek raceway I was racing in the 45 plus class. A guy in our class hit the spectator table top behind me and his front wheel landed on my rear fender and broke my fender at the rear fender bolts up at the back of the seat on left had side.

For a quick fix i just used safety wire and stitched it back up so the mud wouldn't finish breaking it off. I had ordered a new rear fender and wasn't gonna to put it on until closer to spring but decided to go ahead an put ot on today.

Closer observation i noticed that the left side of the old fender was drooped down a bit.  After i put the new fender on I rechecked my sag and it was at 120mm lol.....

I had to put 3 turns of preload on it and checked it again and now I am at 108mm  With 32mm free sag.  So that sounds bout right as far as the spring for my weight goes.

But if it still feels stiff in the rear I would think it would  be ok to take a turn off wouldnt it?   Or should i just leave it here and adust the High speed and Low speed compression more soft?

[redrider144]

6 minutes ago, CaptainKnobby said:

had to put 3 turns of preload on it and checked it again and now I am at 108mm  With 32mm free sag.  So that sounds bout right as far as the spring for my weight goes.

But if it still feels stiff in the rear I would think it would  be ok to take a turn off wouldnt it?

Sag adjustment isn't really for making the rear end stiff or soft.  It should generally be adjusted based on chassis balance & turning.

[GHILL28]

That's already on the soft side of a rear spring for a 450.

Where's your rebound set at?  If it's not staying planted through a corner, sounds like the damping has got a bouncy setting.