TE300i and aftermarket head

[mx_599]

14 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

For a TPI?  There's a specific thing going on there where KTM started retarding the low rpm ignition timing in 2017 XC / XCW 250 / 300  (according to Fabio (PowerCDI)).  And based on the stock dyno runs I've seen, the TPI bikes seem similar.  So someone like Twisted Dev or Slavens could improve that simply by advancing the timing to where it should be.

But the best gain on a TPI is going to be a higher compression head & ECU changes to match it.

https://twostrokeperformance.com.au/product/tpi-transformation-kit-suits-2018-2019-ktm-300tpi-and-husky-te300i/

Yes I plan to do this. What do you guys think of Slavens? They are fairly local to me

[redrider144]

15 minutes ago, mx_599 said:

Yes I plan to do this. What do you guys think of Slavens? They are fairly local to me

IDK.  From looking at their website, I'm not seeing any TPI head / ecu package that was developed together.  You're on your own there.  I'd be looking for a matched set, personally.

[mx_599]

1 hour ago, redrider144 said:

IDK.  From looking at their website, I'm not seeing any TPI head / ecu package that was developed together.  You're on your own there.  I'd be looking for a matched set, personally.

They have ecu athena get and injector relocation kit. They said you need relocation kit to use GET

[redrider144]

25 minutes ago, mx_599 said:

They have ecu athena get and injector relocation kit. They said you need relocation kit to use GET

Best bang for the $$ would be something like an S3 head ($260) and a JD jetting fuel tuner ($250).  JD confirmed to me that they have recommended settings for high compression heads and other mods.

With a GET & the relo kit, you're at $1100 without a head.

Its up to you, it's your bike, do what you want.

[HERA]

Since you can not ,easily and accurately test  varying part throttle operation on a rear wheel dyno, the results are usually steady state running and are not real world indicative IMO.

 Injector flow rate and pump flow will vary from bike to bike.. So, "one size fits all" ECU tunes are not going to be optimum for every bike because of these variances..

It is our belief that having a piggy back tuner is a great method to fine tune your fuel and ignition values to suit YOUR ENGINE and riding style.. This is not all that difficult to do ,especially, if somebody supplies you with a baseline map.. So, this baseline map, will be the equivalent of any ECU flashing/programming you receive from those providing that service.. The difference is---> you can alter and change it at your will and fine tune it in for your engine's needs..

As for aftermarket heads... there are countless threads on this subject comparing all of the ones available..  The RK Tek Head has been the one that comes out on top in these threads.. 

Also, the RK Tek head is the only head that can be successfully run WITHOUT the need for any ECU changes.. 

If you do not want to spend the extra money on ECU changes and still realize nice improvements throughout the full RPM width (with most focus on low to mid torque increase),  AND have a 20 degree engine coolant temp DECREASE....you can do this with the RK Tek Head.. MANY threads and postings that verify this..

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by HERA

[mx_599]

8 minutes ago, HERA said:

Since you can not ,easily and accurately test  varying part throttle operation on a rear wheel dyno, the results are usually steady state running and are not real world indicative IMO.

 Injector flow rate and pump flow will vary from bike to bike.. So, "one size fits all" ECU tunes are not going to be optimum for every bike because of these variances..

It is our belief that having a piggy back tuner is a great method to fine tune your fuel and ignition values to suit YOUR ENGINE and riding style.. This is not all that difficult to do ,especially, if somebody supplies you with a baseline map.. So, this baseline map, will be the equivalent of any ECU flashing/programming you receive from those providing that service.. The difference is---> you can alter and change it at your will and fine tune it in for your engine's needs..

As for aftermarket heads... there are countless threads on this subject comparing all of the ones available..  The RK Tek Head has been the one that comes out on top in these threads.. 

Also, the RK Tek head is the only head that can be successfully run WITHOUT the need for any ECU changes.. 

If you do not want to spend the extra money on ECU changes and still realize nice improvements throughout the full RPM width (with most focus on low to mid torque increase),  AND have a 20 degree engine coolant temp DECREASE....you can do this with the RK Tek Head.. MANY threads and postings that verify this..

 

Thanks for your time. I am working on getting through those threads.

Is the Athena GET  considered piggy back?

Any reservations using Slavens? I am not sure if Slavens allows adjustments of base map or are amenable to RK head use??

[EmpireofDerp]

Does the RK Tek head increase fuel mileage? 

 

 

@shrubitup

[HERA]

4 minutes ago, mx_599 said:

Thanks for your time. I am working on getting through those threads.

Is the Athena GET  considered piggy back?

Any reservations using Slavens? I am not sure if Slavens allows adjustments of base map or are amenable to RK head use??

Yes, it will be tough to get thru any of the threads that have constant trolling by the TT "Elite".  You can message me off line if you wish to discuss anything without the BS..

The Athena GET ECU is its own full aftermarket ECU.. So, no it is not apiggy back, BUT you can alter the programming with it.. so, it is a good choice.. The downside is the cost with the GET..  Slavens is just a standard S3 head.. The S3 combustion chamber designs are just higher compression versions of the OEM design.. IMO< the OEM chamber design is where the issue lie, so having a higher comp version of this, already, lacking, design, might show some improvement, but it is far from ideal 

Edited October 27, 2020 by HERA

[mog]

6 hours ago, mx_599 said:

Thanks for your time. I am working on getting through those threads.

Is the Athena GET  considered piggy back?

Any reservations using Slavens? I am not sure if Slavens allows adjustments of base map or are amenable to RK head use??

Its bs to say you can't get a bike set up on a Dyno ,I have done it many times 

 

And I don't try to sell products here ,just remember that 

[redrider144]

9 hours ago, HERA said:

Since you can not ,easily and accurately test  varying part throttle operation on a rear wheel dyno, the results are usually steady state running and are not real world indicative IMO.

 

[redrider144]

2 hours ago, mog said:

Its bs to say you can't get a bike set up on a Dyno ,I have done it many times

Perhaps Hera should ask Jamie Ellis to teach him how to use a dyno.  Obviously Jamie has figured out how to use one for part throttle tuning.  Jaime spends considerably more time tuning at part throttle than WOT.

Edited October 28, 2020 by redrider144

[HERA]

58 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

Perhaps Hera should ask Jamie Ellis to teach him how to use a dyno.  Obviously Jamie has figured out how to use one for part throttle tuning.  Jaime spends considerably more time tuning at part throttle than WOT.

Perhaps, you should know more about tuning a 2 stroke vs a 4 stroke (at part throttle) and the difference in tuning methods/procedures that need to be used BEFORE you start  making statements like this??

Also, the difference between a "Fully sensored" (4 -stroke) modern FI configuration vs a "Hardly sensored" (TPI 2-stroke) primitive FI configuration..

Just sayin'....

Edited October 28, 2020 by HERA

[redrider144]

1 hour ago, HERA said:

Just sayin'....

"Hundreds of hours of dyno testing time."  They specifically talk about 1/8 to 1/4 throttle.  This is a "..."Hardly sensored" (TPI 2-stroke) primitive FI configuration" right?

 

[HERA]

31 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

"Hundreds of hours of dyno testing time."  They specifically talk about 1/8 to 1/4 throttle.  This is a "..."Hardly sensored" (TPI 2-stroke) primitive FI configuration" right?

 

Glad we agree Jason

 

[69fastback]

21 hours ago, HERA said:

 

Also, the RK Tek head is the only head that can be successfully run WITHOUT the need for any ECU changes.. 

 

 

Can you please explain the science behind this? How is it possible that your head, which essentially does the same thing all aftermarket heads do, does not require ECU changes and all other aftermarket heads do? What about their heads require the ECU to be changed and what about your head does it with no changes?

[weantright]

35 minutes ago, 69fastback said:

Can you please explain the science behind this? How is it possible that your head, which essentially does the same thing all aftermarket heads do, does not require ECU changes and all other aftermarket heads do? What about their heads require the ECU to be changed and what about your head does it with no changes?

Not all TPI aftermarket head companies require ECU tuning. Up until a month or so TSP offered a ECU re-flash separate from their head. You had a choice to buy one or both and reviews were good on just the re-flash. Today you just have the kit including both re-flash and head. They also say now you need both to work together rather then complement each other. Now that TSP has a US distributor I suspect a fear from loss head sales here in the US as a result of RK history with KTM bikes. Just my theory. Then there’s Silber, reviews are their head design isn’t as good as RK but the tune is really good by itself. Reviews of Silber’s re-flash and RK head are working great together. They also like TSP did, mention their re-flash complements the head but not needed. As for Slavens, he’s a cranky old man that is abrasive toward customers and I prefer spending my money elsewhere. I also would buy a head, any brand before relocating the injector. GET is a nice option just many have no need for that type of adjustments or cost. 

[69fastback]

8 minutes ago, weantright said:

Not all TPI aftermarket head companies require ECU tuning. Up until a month or so TSP offered a ECU re-flash separate from their head. You had a choice to buy one or both and reviews were good on just the re-flash. Today you just have the kit including both re-flash and head. They also say now you need both to work together rather then complement each other. Now that TSP has a US distributor I suspect a fear from loss head sales here in the US as a result of RK history with KTM bikes. Just my theory. Then there’s Silber, reviews are their head design isn’t as good as RK but the tune is really good by itself. Reviews of Silber’s re-flash and RK head are working great together. They also like TSP did, mention their re-flash complements the head but not needed. As for Slavens, he’s a cranky old man that is abrasive toward customers and I prefer spending my money elsewhere. I also would buy a head, any brand before relocating the injector. GET is a nice option just many have no need for that type of adjustments or cost. 

Did you read the post I quoted?

[weantright]

12 minutes ago, 69fastback said:

Did you read the post I quoted?

My point was other head builders don’t need ECU re-flash which you posted they do. Both TSP and Silber builds a map and head to work together,,,, or separate. TSP now says you need both,,,,, from what I was told their map and head haven’t changed. My stake in this is I am looking for a head this winter. I already have Silber’s map and head choices are RK, TSP, Silber or S3. While RK has more reviews, better then TSP is the question. Part of TSP set up is adjusting PV out where others don’t. This will no doubt make a difference even without any mods. Did their map/head make a bigger difference or was it the PV?? 

[69fastback]

1 hour ago, 69fastback said:

Can you please explain the science behind this? How is it possible that your head, which essentially does the same thing all aftermarket heads do, does not require ECU changes and all other aftermarket heads do? What about their heads require the ECU to be changed and what about your head does it with no changes?

Kels, if you could please explain the science behind this, so me, and others can better understand what makes your head different than all the other aftermarket heads in regards to tuning, I’d appreciate it. 

[EmpireofDerp]

37 minutes ago, 69fastback said:

Kels, if you could please explain the science behind this, so me, and others can better understand what makes your head different than all the other aftermarket heads in regards to tuning, I’d appreciate it. 

Trade sekrets bro. It is a money back guarantee if you don't like it, just buy a couple already. 350$ for 12 oz of aluminum, seems totally reasonable.