Video: KTM'S CARB VS TPI (TRANSFER PORT INJECTION)

[Boertmann84]

4 hours ago, SmokeX said:

It seems your an anti carb person. Prolly some greeny. :-). Why beat up on posters trying to let others know about potential problems with a product? Valid opinions from valid members.

Every rider wants a better product. Period. And they don’t care about whether it’s tpi or a carburetor

When manufacturers make a better product with out a huge expense to the consumer, people will be in line for it. Word will spread like wild fire. And people will brag about it to others and on line. On the other hand, others will also spread the word when they have been duped into purchasing an unreliable product.

The reality is - the word is not spreading around the way you would like it to go. it’s not happening with TPI’s. And it’s my guess your pissed off about it for you spent serious money on one. As a matter of fact I bet your mad because your bike isn’t perceived by others as being superior like you do. Well I’m sorry.


I’ll be at the KTM test day this weekend. I’ll see for my self how the bike in question runs compared to my 19 300XC.
:-).



 

The tpi is great but comparing to an xc is apples to oranges. I still prefer linkage, pds has come a long way but IMO it’s finicky to tune. AER is good and you will hear varying opinions on xplor but it falls on its face at high speed. Granted , the suspension can be made very good with valving and other parts. The Xc makes more sx like power over the xcw. Of course an aftermarket head levels the playing field.

[mog]

I believe the ignition curve is also altered which adds another variable.

It does but on the tpi the last thing you want to do is go too far with advancing the timing ? The Dyno I put up showed the afr on full throttle was perfect ,but unfortunately the Dyno guy didn't do part throttle runs

[Boertmann84]

7 minutes ago, mog said:

17 minutes ago, Boertmann84 said:

I believe the ignition curve is also altered which adds another variable.

It does but on the tpi the last thing you want to do is go too far with advancing the timing ? The Dyno I put up showed the afr on full throttle was perfect ,but unfortunately the Dyno guy didn't do part throttle runs

Wot aside, you could probably change the ignition curve earlier in the rpm range to alter the power delivery

[I'm trying]

2 hours ago, Boertmann84 said:

Do the ktm 4 strokes have controllers available from ktm? Yes or no, that would probably give the answer to whether they will make it for the tpi.

This I don't know. But I know Yamaha does this with their GYTR line. 

[I'm trying]

2 hours ago, mog said:

2 hours ago, I said:

They can release a closed coarse ecu if they want without having to worry about emissions. They sell the bike fully in compliance. Then you can purchase the race ecu after. Their hands are clean and you get what you want.

Read more  

They could but I have a strong feeling they won't ,with enough tpi scare stories do you feel it's likely they want people playing with the fueling ?

Maybe not playing with the standard ecu. But when they sell you a "closed coarse" ecu, you would assume liability there after. It's like with insurance for my sportbike. Once my bike leaves the paddock at the track, all liability is assumed by me. They do not cover after that.

Edited January 21, 2019 by I'm trying

[redrider144]

2 hours ago, 2strokenut said:

This thread is so gay

It was doing fine until a Hawaiian Hooker showed up.  

[mog]

Maybe not playing with the standard ecu. But when they sell you a "closed coarse" ecu, you would assume liability there after. It's like with insurance for my sportbike. Once my bike leaves the paddock at the track, all liability is assumed by me. They do not cover after that.

If they have stopped selling them for a 4 stroke ,you have zero chance on the tpi

[redrider144]

2 minutes ago, mog said:

If they have stopped selling them for a 4 stroke ,you have zero chance on the tpi

Especially since the TPI uses a completely different ECU than the 4 strokes.  So they'd have to make a one-off programmer for the TPI bikes, which seems extremely unlikely.  

[Boertmann84]

We are going to have to rely on the aftermarket for this, I think power cdi will have everything a tuner ever needed

[I'm trying]

10 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

Especially since the TPI uses a completely different ECU than the 4 strokes.  So they'd have to make a one-off programmer for the TPI bikes, which seems extremely unlikely.  

I'm not saying they will. I'm just speculating and reasoning how they would get around the emmisions aspect and offer up something that would be capable to have the fueling adjustable. 

You never know though. They might deem this successful and want to officially race it developing one for their race teams. It would then filter down to the general public after that.

[mog]

I honestly think ktm is going the opposite direction and especially with the tpi , if they have recently locked the 4 stroke ECU why would they?

[I'm trying]

11 minutes ago, Boertmann84 said:

We are going to have to rely on the aftermarket for this, I think power cdi will have everything a tuner ever needed

I think by this time next year there will be a lot more to chose from. Once they have this system for a while, the after market can usually figure out how to best optimize these systems. For racing of coarse.

[Anatoli]

The tpi is great but comparing to an xc is apples to oranges. I still prefer linkage, pds has come a long way but IMO it’s finicky to tune. AER is good and you will hear varying opinions on xplor but it falls on its face at high speed. Granted , the suspension can be made very good with valving and other parts. The Xc makes more sx like power over the xcw. Of course an aftermarket head levels the playing field.

Another knowledgeable post. KTM /Husqvarna offer the widest choice of off road bikes to consumers. It is up to the rider to research the different models and select that which best suits his/her intended riding terrain. Graham Jarvis doesn’t run an XC in Extreme Enduro. He sure could if he thought it was better for him. Likewise my TE 300i is not so great at high speeds in the whoops. Linear power is much more important for finding traction in the gnar. A skilled tuner can make a carb work very well on a given day , providing altitude and temperature don’t vary too much. Max power is rarely called for in hard enduro. I find the 56 or so horses available to me to be plenty. Getting it to hook up in steep mountain single track, or no track, is my favorite challenge. My TPI bike still pulls 6th gear wheelies, as detuned as it is. There is much to like about our choices.

[SmokeX]

I think by this time next year there will be a lot more to chose from. Once they have this system for a while, the after market can usually figure out how to best optimize these systems. For racing of coarse.

Being able to tune the bike is key to a successful platform imo.

[SmokeX]

The tpi is great but comparing to an xc is apples to oranges. I still prefer linkage, pds has come a long way but IMO it’s finicky to tune. AER is good and you will hear varying opinions on xplor but it falls on its face at high speed. Granted , the suspension can be made very good with valving and other parts. The Xc makes more sx like power over the xcw. Of course an aftermarket head levels the playing field.

The power plant between the two bikes are what we are comparing.

Topic. Tpi vrs carbs.

Don’t get me started on the crappy fork and PDS shock. :-).

[I'm trying]

4 minutes ago, SmokeX said:

Being able to tune the bike is key to a successful platform imo.

Yes I agree. I have a PC5 on my R1 for example. The FI will compensate only so much, but with the PC5 I can change the power curve to my liking. I just have to plug in the laptop and can adjust +/- fuel 10 increments either way at 100 rpm intervals. First I save the current map to a flash stick. If I don't like the changes, I can reload the map from the flash stick. Very easy. This what I hope can be developed for the TPI.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, I'm trying said:

Yes I agree. I have a PC5 on my R1 for example. The FI will compensate only so much, but with the PC5 I can change the power curve to my liking. I just have to plug in the laptop and can adjust +/- fuel 10 increments either way at 100 rpm intervals. First I save the current map to a flash stick. If I don't like the changes, I can reload the map from the flash stick. Very easy. This what I hope can be developed for the TPI.

Exactly. I have the Flash Tune for my FJ-09 that flashes the stock ECU. Can download maps and tweak as I like 

[Anatoli]

Wot aside, you could probably change the ignition curve earlier in the rpm range to alter the power delivery

The Husqvarna TPI versions come with a handlebar map switch standard to accomplish this. There is a big difference in power production between the 2 settings. This switch is available as an accessory from KTM hard parts. It might come on the 6 Days model, not sure.

[SmokeX]

37 minutes ago, I said:

Yes I agree. I have a PC5 on my R1 for example. The FI will compensate only so much, but with the PC5 I can change the power curve to my liking. I just have to plug in the laptop and can adjust +/- fuel 10 increments either way at 100 rpm intervals. First I save the current map to a flash stick. If I don't like the changes, I can reload the map from the flash stick. Very easy. This what I hope can be developed for the TPI.

Yes I agree . I am able to tune my  car using a lap top. And no. I don’t want to put a carb on it. lol. :-).

Now that would be sweet imo.

Edited January 21, 2019 by SmokeX
Corrected statement

[Clutch44]

57 minutes ago, Anatoli said:

Another knowledgeable post. KTM /Husqvarna offer the widest choice of off road bikes to consumers. It is up to the rider to research the different models and select that which best suits his/her intended riding terrain. Graham Jarvis doesn’t run an XC in Extreme Enduro. He sure could if he thought it was better for him. Likewise my TE 300i is not so great at high speeds in the whoops. Linear power is much more important for finding traction in the gnar. A skilled tuner can make a carb work very well on a given day , providing altitude and temperature don’t vary too much. Max power is rarely called for in hard enduro. I find the 56 or so horses available to me to be plenty. Getting it to hook up in steep mountain single track, or no track, is my favorite challenge. My TPI bike still pulls 6th gear wheelies, as detuned as it is. There is much to like about our choices.

56 horsepower? I've never heard it being that high.