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Lap Times (250f vs 450)

By WideOpenAllDay,
in Pro Motorcycle Racing

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Eric57Nelson

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I usually dont look at the lap times but i was suprised to see at Washougal that RV was the only one in the 2:16's and James was in the 2:17's. Is RV laps times lower on most tracks or are the tracks more set up for lights?

The lites class race on a track that is much smoother than what the 450's have to race on. Plus Stewart dosen't have to push as hard as RV cause Stewart is on another planet compared to everyone else on 450's.

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carterbuzz

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The lites class race on a track that is much smoother than what the 450's have to race on. Plus Stewart dosen't have to push as hard as RV cause Stewart is on another planet compared to everyone else on 450's.

Exactly, RV's lap in the 16's came in the first moto when you had a lot less braking bumps and a faster track. In the 2nd motos though stewart was able to turn a faster lap than RV, when the track was at it's roughest. Usually Stewart does run the fastest lap even with a rougher track.

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Supafreak_711

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I think the biggest factor in this is the fact that Stewart isn't having to push himself for 1st place.

Many people try to make the connection between pro lites lap times being close to pro MX class lap times and amateur 250f's and 450f's. Ryan Villapoto's KXF is probably just as fast as my 450R with the same rider on both. I'm not accusing you of making this statement (because you haven't), but many think an amateur’s 250f with ~35hp (best guess, haven’t been on a 250F for awhile) compares with the pro's 250F's. In contrast the factory 450's don’t put out just a ton more power than the stock ones. The difference is all in the power delivery/usability and throttle response.

What I’m saying is, many people use their lap times being close as justification for getting rid of 450’s “250F’s are just as fast…. Look at poto” when the reality is much different. We have a very loamy local track and the big bikes eat the 250f’s up in the sweeping turns and long straights.

Another thing many don’t realize is that at the amateur level, the faster guys are on the 250f’s anyways. Not many go straight into pro racing on a big bike, so they try to work their way into the pro lites on a lites bike.

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marshmello1

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I think the biggest factor in this is the fact that Stewart isn't having to push himself for 1st place.

Many people try to make the connection between pro lites lap times being close to pro MX class lap times and amateur 250f's and 450f's. Ryan Villapoto's KXF is probably just as fast as my 450R with the same rider on both. I'm not accusing you of making this statement (because you haven't), but many think an amateur’s 250f with ~35hp (best guess, haven’t been on a 250F for awhile) compares with the pro's 250F's. In contrast the factory 450's don’t put out just a ton more power than the stock ones. The difference is all in the power delivery/usability and throttle response.

What I’m saying is, many people use their lap times being close as justification for getting rid of 450’s “250F’s are just as fast…. Look at poto” when the reality is much different. We have a very loamy local track and the big bikes eat the 250f’s up in the sweeping turns and long straights.

Another thing many don’t realize is that at the amateur level, the faster guys are on the 250f’s anyways. Not many go straight into pro racing on a big bike, so they try to work their way into the pro lites on a lites bike.

Deffinetly the best way i've seen somebody put it so far, but I do recall izzi, stroupe, and canard all saying there amateur bikes werent noticably different than there pro bikes :ride:

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marshmello1

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They were talking about their Pro-Am bikes I believe.

yes, I am well aware of that, amateur and pro-am are the same thing, pro is just the class they run in the amateurs. They are pro's in the amateurs.. there for, they are pro-am's. :ride:

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SDUB

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Villopoto is fast, that is the reason. Factors such as smoother track in 1st moto etc. play a role but the biggest factor is the speed of RV. Stewart is often cruising but he does push for at least a couple of laps. The fastest lap only needs to happen once. Doesn't anyone remember what RV did at the MX of Nations last year? Same track at the same time he beat the 450's, ALL of the 450's. Doesn't anyone remember what Dungey did in the SX rounds he raced this year? RV and Dungey are fast, that is why their lap times are up there week in and week out. RV will be faster on a 450 and when Dungey moves up so will he. That isn't to say RV is faster than Bubba, but it sounds funny that people have excuses why the lap times are close. I for one am glad they are and can't wait to see them race straight up!

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Supafreak_711

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Villopoto is fast, that is the reason. Factors such as smoother track in 1st moto etc. play a role but the biggest factor is the speed of RV. Stewart is often cruising but he does push for at least a couple of laps. The fastest lap only needs to happen once. Doesn't anyone remember what RV did at the MX of Nations last year? Same track at the same time he beat the 450's, ALL of the 450's. Doesn't anyone remember what Dungey did in the SX rounds he raced this year? RV and Dungey are fast, that is why their lap times are up there week in and week out. RV will be faster on a 450 and when Dungey moves up so will he. That isn't to say RV is faster than Bubba, but it sounds funny that people have excuses why the lap times are close. I for one am glad they are and can't wait to see them race straight up!

Yep, the new generation of wiz kids is blazing fast :ride:

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mxjosh

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I'm not sure the lap times tell the whole story. The 250f's are probably easier to ride fast as they are light, corner easier, and the power is not too much. I've heard over and over from the pro's that the 450 demands respect and that it is a more difficult bike to race. More power, more weight. Probably requires more skill to ride fast.

Thats only my opinion and limited experience talking. I am far more aggressive on a little bike than I am on a big bike. I just don't have to worry as much that the little bike will get away from me. If I'm stupid on a big bike, I get hurt. Not so much on a little bike.

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Grand Master

FreeHeavyRotation

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Standing at the entrance of the whoops I noticed that during the first moto a big rut developed as it wore on, really slowing entrance speed, which really could put a damper on speed through the whoops. This rut is really what I noticed separating Villipoto from a pass on Dungey. I figure this little obstacle alone might have cost a half second or more, just in that section.

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  • 3 years later...
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bushman45

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Now that it's back up, I thought RacerX mentioned on Twitter that Eli Tomac's average lap time in the lites class beat all the 450 guys on Saturday. Not bad at all...

4th best lap average, 16 laps though. ama has all the scoring data. tomac's 1st lap was just under 54sec. he had such a lead that he cruised the last few circuits and still won by 14sec.
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