Will AER 48 cartridges fit other WP fork tubes? Xplor ? 4CS? OC?

[KTM753]

I just purchased a set of 2018 300 XC AER cartridges on the cheap. My intension was to have a 2nd set to tune and make comparisons to my current setup. 

But, I got to wondering, would these cartridges fit in other WP fork tubes? Xplor ? 4CS? My 2007 Open Chambers I also have?

[NoFiddyPilot]

My understanding is that the AER48 fork is about 1/2" longer than the 4CS and Xplor. My guess is no.

[mog]

The 2007 has much stiffer outer tubes ( upper ) so I would say not to use those ,the oc fork it's possible ? As Byran says the xplor and 4cs are shorter

[KBRPKENNY]

I just purchased a set of 2018 300 XC AER cartridges on the cheap. My intension was to have a 2nd set to tune and make comparisons to my current setup. 

 

But, I got to wondering, would these cartridges fit in other WP fork tubes? Xplor ? 4CS? My 2007 Open Chambers I also have?

 

Tubes are the same length.

There are some variations in tube stiffness in outer tubes 2006-09,2010-16,17-19

But basically the axle clamps are the difference between xplor ,4cs, OC and

CC/AER.(Note CC and AER are interchangeable , however 48601469,48601506 adaptors are needed) obviously small and large axle versions differ also but not in tube compatibility!

Cartridges define fork assembly length!

 

[weantright]

Running AER cartridges in Xplor forks with AER bottom clamps. This is what you need to do for the AER's to work.

[mog]

What's different on the xplor parts that make them work for aer?

[bowser]

On 3/16/2019 at 1:19 AM, mog said:

What's different on the xplor parts that make them work for aer?

AER has different bottoming cups, same lugs otherwise.

also CV forks have a different thread pitch for the cartridge than the AER. I tried to screw my AER into my CV tubes and they didn't screw in

[KTM753]

On 3/15/2019 at 9:04 AM, weantright said:

Running AER cartridges in Xplor forks with AER bottom clamps. This is what you need to do for the AER's to work.

If the Xplor cartridges are shorter than AER, the travel would be reduced. I would think this is not desirable.  Why in your opinion is the Xplor upper and lower tubes better than AER? 

[mog]

I think he means to get it work with a aer cart

[weantright]

31 minutes ago, KTM753 said:

If the Xplor cartridges are shorter than AER, the travel would be reduced. I would think this is not desirable.  Why in your opinion is the Xplor upper and lower tubes better than AER? 

Tubes don't define travel cartridges do. So a longer cartridges makes longer forks but not always longer travel. You would need to adjust fork in clamps to keep the rake correct. I didn't say Xplor tubes were any better just that we used Xplor forks for the conversion that most are seeking. WP uses the same tubes on 99% of the forks on today's bikes, CV's are the oddball. Axle clamps are one of the differences between models.

 

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 5:12 AM, bowser said:

AER has different bottoming cups, same lugs otherwise.

also CV forks have a different thread pitch for the cartridge than the AER. I tried to screw my AER into my CV tubes and they didn't screw in

This is correct.

[KTM753]

Thanks for the replies. I re-read the posts and it makes sense now. AER cartridges will fit in open chamber, closed chamber, 4CS and Xplor. Just need the AER bottoming cups and the correct axle clamps for the axle you plan to use. Does the front caliper swap between all the axle clamps? 

[KTM753]

On 3/13/2019 at 8:10 PM, KBRPKENNY said:

 

Tubes are the same length.

There are some variations in tube stiffness in outer tubes 2006-09,2010-16,17-19

But basically the axle clamps are the difference between xplor ,4cs, OC and

CC/AER.(Note CC and AER are interchangeable , however 48601469,48601506 adaptors are needed) obviously small and large axle versions differ also but not in tube compatibility!

Cartridges define fork assembly length!

 

Kenny, Attached is picture of the two part #s you mentioned above are needed. This diagram is from a 2018 250SX. These parts are needed to use the CC axle lugs with AER cartridges? But not needed if you have AER axle lugs? 

[KBRPKENNY]

Kenny, Attached is picture of the two part #s you mentioned above are needed. This diagram is from a 2018 250SX. These parts are needed to use the CC axle lugs with AER cartridges? But not needed if you have AER axle lugs? 

 

Parts are needed regardless of axle lugs you have as both CC lugs and AER lugs are the same.

If you have tube assembles with lugs then if CC they will have bottoming cones to suit the smaller diameter cartridges.

[KTM753]

I wanted to follow up and say I was successful in swapping a set of AER cartridges in a set of 4CS forks. I purchased a used set of AER lugs/axle clamps and the AER bottoming cones (highlighted in yellow in a previous post). 

I had to heat up the Loctite between the lower tube and axle lugs very hot and with the lug clamped in a vice, spin the tube out. I did the reverse for install using the AER parts and it went well. Tip, have new o-rings for axle lugs on hand so you don't have to wait to replace them when swapping lugs. #9 in the diagram in above post. Fits inside the lug and seals between the lug and lower tube. 

I am a fan of this swap. You get a lot more adjustment with AER and only one cartridge the you need to shuffle shims in if that is what you're after. AER is an easy for to disassemble and service at home. And this was the first time I had done any fork disassembly myself. Anyone that has questions in the future, let me know, I am happy to help facilitate this swap. 

[KTM753]

The following post I made to another forum and I thought it would be relevant to this thread also, I was responding to a post about swapping AER cartridges into 2004 open chamber forks. If I misspoke about any of this, let me know:

I have done this conversion on a set of 4CS forks. You need the AER cartridges, bottoming cones, and unfortunately, you need the lugs/axle clamps from a AER also. You can't use your open chamber lugs, they are different. 

From my research, Open Chambers, 4CS, and Xplor use a similar lug with different axle clamp sizes for newer bikes. Closed chamber and AER lugs are similar with different axle clamps for newer bikes. 

If you wanted to keep your 2004 front axle size and install AER cartridges in your open chamber outer tubes, you need closed chamber lugs for the older front axle size, AER cartridges and bottoming cones. 

This swap can be done. You just need the lugs too. And you need a heat source to get the Loctite hot enough to release and let you unthread the tube from the lugs. I recommend a vise and a 48mm tube clamp to hold the tube while you spin the lug off with the axle. I used a propane torch on my 4CS lugs and it worked. But it look a while to get them hot enough. I used an infared thermometer to verify temp of the tube and above 250 degrees Fahrenheit they finally let loose. 

Let me know if you have more questions. I am willing to help. AER cartridges are a great upgrade and very easy to work on, adjust, shim shuffle once the cartridges are installed.

EDIT: I thought maybe a picture would help explain the differences between OC/4CS/Xplor lugs vs CC/AER lugs. Below is a picture of the 4CS lugs I removed. AER air cartridge (damping cartridge has the same bottom) and then a 4CS cartridge. 
See how the 4CS lugs are a circle that gets smaller as you get deeper in the lug and how the 4CS cartridge at the far right is a circle also? Now notice how the bottom of the AER cartridge is a hex shape? The AER bottoming cone has this hex shape inside it to keep the AER cartridge from spinning to you can tighten down the bottom clicker/bolt for AER into the cartridge. The bottoming cone for AER also has a hex shape on it's outside that fits into another hex shape in the AER/CC lug (not pictured). So the AER bottoming cone can't fit into a OC/4CS/Xplor lug because there is nothing to keep the bottoming cone from spinning... I hope that helps explain why you need the AER/CC lugs for this conversion. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by KTM753

[LuxonMX]

Here's a cross section of both types of lugs for a better look:

[n2dirt]

Outstanding Billy!

[n2dirt]

Side note...the 2 piece adapters to fit KYB in 4CS are garbage. I've seen them leak. Come loose. And freely spin when trying to dis-assemble the fork.

[s_naka]

On 3/13/2019 at 10:10 PM, KBRPKENNY said:

 

Tubes are the same length.

There are some variations in tube stiffness in outer tubes 2006-09,2010-16,17-19

But basically the axle clamps are the difference between xplor ,4cs, OC and

CC/AER.(Note CC and AER are interchangeable , however 48601469,48601506 adaptors are needed) obviously small and large axle versions differ also but not in tube compatibility!

Cartridges define fork assembly length!

 

Hello KENNY...Can you explain a little more about the AER and CC similarities? I have 2018 KTM 350SXF with AER48 forks which I would like to convert to spring using a Closed Cartridge inserts. I was checking the lugs of those and noticed they are completely different...AER have its bottom clicker threaded to the hex from the cartridge rod, whereas the CC bottom clicker is threaded directly to the lugs clamps. However I did noticed that the AER bottom clicker does fit the CC rod. In this case, if the swap is possible, I will need to purchase another bottom clicker for the other leg, since AER air side fork does not have it...correct??? What about spring seats??? The springs don’t seat correctly on the lugs, once AER was not designed to accommodate those. Are there any other parts I should replace / purchase in order to do so???? 

[mog]

It's only the bottoming cones what is difference between an aer and a CC fork