250/300rr tuning options

[firffighter]

So, just out of curiosity, thought it'd be interesting to see what all is out there and has been tried in terms of tuning the 250/300. 

Obvious:

*PV- adjustment to stock. Different springs, X Trainer PV spacer

*Head- Beta high compression. RK tek. Milling stock. S

*Jetting- various needles, clip positions, jet sizes. notching slide. Lectron.

*Pipes- stock, FMF, etc.

Not so obvious:

*STIC metering block. Haven't found any Beta guys try one.

*X Trainer pipe. Anyone try this?

*Boyesen rad valve. New product. 

 

 

[shrubitup]

13 minutes ago, firffighter said:

So, just out of curiosity, thought it'd be interesting to see what all is out there and has been tried in terms of tuning the 250/300. 

Obvious:

*PV- adjustment to stock. Different springs, X Trainer PV spacer

*Head- Beta high compression. RK tek. Milling stock. S

*Jetting- various needles, clip positions, jet sizes. notching slide. Lectron. Smart Carb

*Pipes- stock, FMF, etc.

Not so obvious:

*STIC metering block. Haven't found any Beta guys try one.

*X Trainer pipe. Anyone try this?

*Boyesen rad valve. New product. 

 

 

Fixed your carb choice above.

Yes, I have tried the XT pipe; I like it but it dents VERY easily so you'll need a skid/pipe protector sold from Emperor Racing. I have a lightly dented XT pipe or a brand new one for sale.

I put a Rad Valve on my old KX250 and liked the result regarding more torque and low end.

Note that @NW_drZ has tried the S3 head that he may sell.

[firffighter]

3 minutes ago, shrubitup said:

Fixed your carb choice above.

Yes, I have tried the XT pipe; I like it but it dents VERY easily so you'll need a skid/pipe protector sold from Emperor Racing. I have a lightly dented XT pipe or a brand new one for sale.

I put a Rad Valve on my old KX250 and liked the result regarding more torque and low end.

Note that @NW_drZ has tried the S3 head that he may sell.

What were your results with the XT pipe? 

I'm not necessarily wanting to do anything at this time as I just picked up the 300rr. 

More interested in what other's have tried and what they power delivery characteristics they experienced. 

[firffighter]

Forgot to mention the G2.

Somewhat popular choice. Tried one on my KTM 525 which worked perfectly on the big bore thumper in the woods. 

[shrubitup]

24 minutes ago, firffighter said:

What were your results with the XT pipe?

More linear, less snap, more torque oriented, improved traction, still revved out but didn't pull as hard up at top.

If it weren't for the required guard, I'd keep the pipes. Don't get me wrong, the standard pipes dent up too but take way more effort to accomplish.

[firffighter]

3 minutes ago, shrubitup said:

More linear, less snap, more torque oriented, improved traction, still revved out but didn't pull as hard up at top.

If it weren't for the required guard, I'd keep the pipes. Don't get me wrong, the standard pipes dent up too but take way more effort to accomplish.

Cool thanks for info. 

Any modifications for running the X Trainer pipe?

Thought I had read you need a pipe/silencer connection from a KTM, but not sure.

[shrubitup]

1 minute ago, firffighter said:

Cool thanks for info. 

Any modifications for running the X Trainer pipe?

Thought I had read you need a pipe/silencer connection from a KTM, but not sure.

No modifications required. I used the new 18+ TPI KTM connector just because my stocker seemed wore out and it was a reaction to the N8RG needle which resulted in my carb and shock coated with black goo.

I did install a used FMF Factory Fatty (purchased on eBay for $79!) after removing the XT pipe. The stinger portion was too long to make both the stock FMF Beta can fit the Factory Fatty pipe. I cut off about 0.75 inch off the end of the stinger and all fits great.

[babyarmholdingapple]

1 hour ago, firffighter said:

So, just out of curiosity, thought it'd be interesting to see what all is out there and has been tried in terms of tuning the 250/300. 

Obvious:

*PV- adjustment to stock. Different springs, X Trainer PV spacer

*Head- Beta high compression. RK tek. Milling stock. S

*Jetting- various needles, clip positions, jet sizes. notching slide. Lectron.

*Pipes- stock, FMF, etc.

Not so obvious:

*STIC metering block. Haven't found any Beta guys try one.

*X Trainer pipe. Anyone try this?

*Boyesen rad valve. New product. 

 

 

I did the power valve spacer on my RR and it was the wrong thing to do.  I also did a Lectron  and it was the wrong thing to do I also did a mule head and while it worked I needed better gas.  Beta has really no issues with the motor and did very nice in stock trim.  I ran it fat so it would kick over easily as the button never worked anyways. 

[Odysseus]

  Just for shits and giggles I swapped out the cdi for a 2011 GG 300 version I had collecting dust and which was replaced with a earlier GG 200 version in an attempt to tune out the hard hit on that particular bike of mine.I had ridden others GG 300's of the same vintage that had much more benign characteristics than this one prior to the cdi swap.

  It took me all of five minutes riding to realize that the transformation from 2018 Beta 250re to 98 KX 250 was not in my best interest.And no, I've owned both.This is not an exaggeration.

Edited February 10, 2019 by widebear

[GP]

30 minutes ago, widebear said:

  Just for shits and giggles I swapped out the cdi for a 2011 GG 300 version I had collecting dust and which was replaced with a earlier GG 200 version in an attempt to tune out the hard hit on that particular bike of mine.I had ridden others GG 300's of the same vintage that had much more benign characteristics than this one prior to the cdi swap.

  It took me all of five minutes riding to realize that the transformation from 2018 Beta 250re to 98 KX 250 was not in my best interest.And no, I've owned both.This is not an exaggeration.

Ignition is big in influence.  Motor doesn't need anything really.  Stock pipe is a good balance, Gnarlys ruin top on 250s and on 300s are ridiculous.  The VForce is good, why a RAD valve which is actually older.  GGs before 2005 came with RAD valves OEM, then switched to VForce.  I made a manifold to use a VForce on an '03 GG and it was better than the RAD valve.  Money better spent on suspension.  

With the PV adjustment, I think its best full out.  This way it opens sooner, doesn't hold closed and then open at higher RPM.  Its smother this way.

 

[Cullins]

Of the motor mods we have tried

pipes- As we talked about in another thread, all the Beta stock/FMF pipes are the same dimensions. Only different plating and matrial thickness. Never been able to feel a difference in any of them, so measured them all back to back, same.  

Scalvini pipe gives the bike a little more low end and smoothes the transition to the mid-range. Then more top end as well. This is mated to their carbon fiber shorty muffler. Another great feature is the ground clearance is much higher. The pipes are beautiful, but just like any un-plated pipe does require work to stay nice.  

Heads- The high compression head from Beta is a standard head that has been milled down. It does increase the snap and pull of the bike a little. Didn’t notice any lose of top end. It’s only good for ‘17 and earlier bikes. 

RK TEK builds a head for you so it can be anything you want! We had two heads from them. One high compression needing race fuel and another to run on pump gas. Both where a good improvement over stock with the race/high compression head being really impressive. 

Flywheel- a lighter flywheel from a pre-EFI fourstroke really wakes the bike up and makes it snap hard and rev quicker. Much more like a race bike. It’s the same flywheel as stock just without the ring gear. Down side is no E-Start and kick start only. Also loses some of that Beta tractability. 

CDI- When we had a 250 & 300 we tried the 250 CDI on a 300 (2015 model). Gave the bike more mid-top end power and quicker rev. However it was also  detonating at lower RPM’s. Probably could have tuned it out with jetting or race gas, but really didn’t want to screw with it and risk a motor. 

Carb- mounted a stock carb off a new YZ 250. 38mm Keihin. Slight adjustment of the air screw and it worked great! Didn’t notice any lose in bottom end and there was a good increase in mid-top and how quickly it revved. 

G2-quick turn throttle. Just nice not having to twist your arm so far. Not a mod for those that want to tame the power down. 

Base Gasket- thinner base gaskets to increase compression/lower ports. Does help the snap off the bottom end. This made the most difference on 250’s. Didn’t seem to hurt the bottom end power.

I think that’s all the mods we have tried over the years  

Edited February 11, 2019 by Cullins

[firffighter]

2 hours ago, Babyarmholdingapple said:

I did the power valve spacer on my RR and it was the wrong thing to do

Why? What specifically were the results? 

[firffighter]

My brother's 250rr is running:

*RB carb mod and head mod, running Sudco CEK needle. 

Huge improvement in linear power delivery and 40+mpg. 

*Gnarly pipe. Excellent increase in low end snap which allows you to loft front end easier. 

*X Trainer PV spacer. 

His bike is the cleanest, best tuned 2-stroke I've ever ridden. It literally has very low vibration with these mods and the power rolls on so pefectly. 

[babyarmholdingapple]

55 minutes ago, firffighter said:

Why? What specifically were the results? 

It lost a bit of hit , was a little dull it seemed midrange afterwards so I  took it to stock again and that’s where the bike ran best 

[Odysseus]

3 hours ago, Babyarmholdingapple said:

I did the power valve spacer on my RR and it was the wrong thing to do.  I also did a Lectron  and it was the wrong thing to do I also did a mule head and while it worked I needed better gas.  Beta has really no issues with the motor and did very nice in stock trim.  I ran it fat so it would kick over easily as the button never worked anyways. 

I tried the pv spacer on my GG and did not care for the results.I found it dulled the off idle throttle response.That being said,I never bothered to play with the jetting after doing the mod either.

[firffighter]

14 minutes ago, widebear said:

I tried the pv spacer on my GG and did not care for the results.I found it dulled the off idle throttle response.That being said,I never bothered to play with the jetting after doing the mod either.

Interesting all of the different preferences we have. 

I always like the PV spacer on the GasGas. 

My brother likes it as well. 

I'm not planning on anything at this point. 

I want plenty of seat time before any changes. 

I'll play with jetting and go from there. 

It's just interesting to hear from other's and what they've tried and how it's worked in terms of performance improvements or disappointing results.

[ktm300]

I'm running all stock except for PC pipe and Scalvini short muffler, the PC pipe and shorter muffler seem to broaden the mid range with out diminishing power anywhere else, but this is a 250.

I do have a STIC sitting on the bench to try but the 250 runs great, I am going to try it on the 125rr after I try a couple aftermarket pipes in search of better mid pull.      

[hawaiidirtrider]

On 2/10/2019 at 10:54 AM, firffighter said:

So, just out of curiosity, thought it'd be interesting to see what all is out there and has been tried in terms of tuning the 250/300. 

Obvious:

*PV- adjustment to stock. Different springs, X Trainer PV spacer

*Head- Beta high compression. RK tek. Milling stock. S

*Jetting- various needles, clip positions, jet sizes. notching slide. Lectron.

*Pipes- stock, FMF, etc.

Not so obvious:

*STIC metering block. Haven't found any Beta guys try one.

*X Trainer pipe. Anyone try this?

*Boyesen rad valve. New product. 

 

 

I think you listed most everything in a few short sentences..pretty good... Maybe a couple little things might be added.

There's some variations.. maybe some stuff from the trickest 250 300 thread might have something.. but really stock is damn good and nothing really needs to be done.. I got the RK head modded up like the owner has his except for a few little things.. I mean it's better..it's worth it to me.. it also wasn't bad at all stock. I'd like to add the pc pipe and I misplaced my cut slide that I was going to put on. Some guys put the different carbs and cdi's and pretty much everything and they would know the best I guess.

The boyesen rad valve..? idk.  I remember with my cr 250 honda the boyesen and the vforce were pretty close in improvement. I had a boyesen on my honda. idk I guess it's adding everything you want and tuning what's good for where you ride too.. I don't know if any or many have tried a boyesen rad valve. it's almost like paying for something you may already have matching performance stock? not sure gotta try. 

I remember when I got my 525 Beta I was scared to do anything to it because I loved how it was stock. I had read of other guys fixing up and making their rfs ktm's into radical animal bikes. I think I'd dig it if maybe I was riding wide open desert or wide open hare scrambles etc.. but for technical? That would be dumb ..like just going back to riding tech trails with an mx bike. That's fun for a little while but how Beta makes and tunes their bikes stock is more along what I want. It's kind of funny too that aftermarket that's most important would be guards.. and suspension.. I left my 525 completely stock except for gearing.. I added an fmf slip on pipe... racetech revalved forks and a longer boano shock. .. rest is guards. Oh wait .. I put on a power now type wing.. just for shits and giggles.

Idk.. I made that trickest 250 300 thread so I could look for all the trickest stuff to put on my bike in one place.. and for everyone else to maybe do the same thing too for their 2 stroke Beta enduros.

For the 300 rr? well I added the pc shorty slip on. It's more for being light and out of the way.. but stock was great. I don't notice any power difference.

I rode an xtrainer pipe.. that feels not bad for tech.. winds out good but the stock pipe got some braap . I rode a friends 300 rr witht the xtrainer pipe.. a 16. good.. subtle difference. I think in the gnar you might get a little edge.. maybe. It's not huge though.

I have a list of goodies I might be interested in putting on my bike. I go back to it regularly and I put on stuff on my bike from it but really stock aint bad. I think the RK head might be the best bang for your buck? or maybe the scalvini? or pc pipe? I don't know though . My dealer and friend and also a great rider keeps telling me there's nothing to do but ride it.. I'm believing him more and more but still like putting trick shit on my bike. I think getting more fit and learning to ride better is more important the longer I'm here looking at this. 

I mean looking at holcombes actually super stock Beta 300 sort of says it all. It's good already. He's winning championships on basically almost stock bikes. It's mainly just tuned for him.

Here's one thing I like but it's sort of dumb because it's just a whole lot of bling that costs a lot.. but it's just so cool to me!!! it's just these stupid wheels that I know are expensive but just look nice and are just a little lighter. This red hub with carbon fiber and these gold rims  with stainless spokes and red nipples  look AAAwwwesome!!!! it just tickles me right.. and of course I don't need it at all. It's not about performance at all I think compared to stock. These wheels are the shit.. wont make me go any faster but I think they will in my mind. 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by hawaiidirtrider

[hawaiidirtrider]

I still don’t know how this thing is. It sounds good. 

http://boyesen.com/news_detail.php?id=130

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by hawaiidirtrider

[ged93]

I'm my opinion you can do a lot of things with a 2 stroke , they are simple engines but small changes can make big difference . Talking about Beta , simply it depends on what kind of engine you want , and if you want an mx bike , don't buy Beta ... ( even if Cullins have made a great job ).

The exhaust makes a big difference , which one is better ? Again it depends on what you want , personally the best ( and expensive ) way for me is to buy a hand made exhaust system designed following my personal requirements ( here in Italy we got tons of these companies which make this kind of service ) , I'm a craftman so I prefer hand made/unique products .

Carb is oviusly important , a 38 is a good idea , maybe with stic metering block .

Torque on low rpms , the only way to have a REAL improvement of this value is to have a heavier crankshaft - flywheel ( for example with GG you can mount extra flywheels , but not on new models ) , officially it's not possible with Betas but I've seen a workshop here which has made this update on a ktm 300 , without loosing the es , but I don't know how they do that ( engines are the same more or less ) .

Cylinder machining , it's more old-school way but the engine changes completely when you make modifications on transfer ports , exhaust port and so on .

Ev setting is important too .

 

Talked with Boano about this last week , they told me that a different exhaust makes a big difference but if you want something more , you need to work on the engine .

Mandi Mandi