Amsoil Saber at 80:1

[RMK800]

Jeff Slavens a highly regarded two stroke guy loves this oil. He finds that the engines are a lot cleaner with this oil. He says he runs it at 80:1 out of convenience for 5 gallons or he would run it at 100:1.

I know Dirt Bike channel guy runs it in his 17 300 XC and his 17 250x.

If there were issues, he obviously wouldn't be running it.

I'm thinking about running it after I go through my Yamaha oil on my X.

https://youtu.be/tcSDNZohzfM

Edited January 24, 2017 by RMK800

[KPRacing]

That oil is meant for weed eaters & leaf blowers.

That's a terrible oil for your high performance moto engine.

If you ride like super easy & at low rpm, the oil can suffice but run it at a MUCH richer ratio.

32:1 -40:1 minimum.

Some of those Slaven's videos make me cringe. Just because a guy posts a bunch of YouTube videos doesn't make him an expert.

A much better option would be the amsoil interceptor oil or better yet the dominator oil.

Stay away from that leaf blower oil & those terribly lean ratios.

Check with amsoil if in doubt.

Edited January 24, 2017 by KPRacing

[rpt50]

So you're going to trust a YouTube guy over what it says in your manual, the contents of which were determined by the engineers that designed your bike.

[RMK800]

Oh boy, Jeff Slavens is no you tube guy! Your comments make it appear he has no hands on experience. That is so far from the truth. So Slavens Racing doesn't offer any validity at all? He is in the Motorcycle hall of fame! I think he is an expert! or tell me what you would call an expert?

Haven't put anything yet in the bike, thanks for the feedback.

Obviously Jeff is well known. Some history in case you guys forgot.

Jeff Slavens is a 43 year veteran of the motorcycle industry, having worked as a line mechanic, factory mechanic, dealership owner/operator and current owner of Jeff Slavens Racing, Mondial Investment Properties and The Verdun Group.

In the 70s he and his two brothers raced Maicos. It was kind of a Team Maico Slavens, but as Randy Hawkins once stated, too many stallions in the same barn is not always a good thing. Every race day their mother was worried sick because when the gate dropped (back then it was actually a rubber band) the brotherly love was gone and the race was ON and they thought nothing of taking out the other in the pursuit of the win.

Those early Maico days are where Jeff’s engine and suspension skills began to develop. Maico Break-O was not allowed if you wanted to beat your brother so there were endless hours devoted to repairs, rebuilds, tuning, and suspension mods. He and his brothers studied magazine pictures of the factory Maico team bikes and cut, bent, and welded their frames to accommodate a lay-down shock position and increase wheel travel. From there shock and fork mods were developed by Team Slavens because there were no off the shelf items available.

His first affiliation with factory race teams was in the 80s with the then dominate Team Husqvarna. Later in the 80s and 90s it was with Team KTM and Team Suzuki and from then until now with Randy Hawkins Team Am Pro Yamaha.

aboutSlavens

When he worked for the Husky team he ported cylinders and did head mods for the entire team (enduro, HS, desert, mx). Boxes with dozens of cylinders (for the many National Champions and up and comers like Randy Hawkins) would arrive several times per year and of course they always needed them yesterday.

Also, during the 80s he started a long working relationship with then new comer Rodney Smith, who rode MX for Team Yamaha at the time. They first met just a few minutes before the first moto of a Washougal, Washington National MX. Jeff was there tuning for top ten Yamaha rider, Mark Flesia, when Rodney rode up and asked for help. His YZ125 was a dog, so Jeff took it for a little test spin in the jetting area. He returned and told Rodney to run up to the start line and pick a starting position while he rode the bike over to Rodney’s pit and started barking out orders to Rodney’s dad whom he had never met. They tore the carb apart in record time, changed some brass and Jeff blasted up to the starting line where engines were running. Rodney hopped on the bike, pulled the holeshot, and they’ve been friends every since. Rodney went on to win 5 Brazilian national Championships, placed 3rd in the World 250 MXGP, 3 National HS Championships, 5 National Reliability Championships, 6 ISDE Gold Medals (top American twice), and 5 GNCC Championships.

In the 80s Husqvarna was the dominant team in all types of off-road racing and Jeff was the cylinder and head guy for the entire team. Cagiva bought Husqvarna in the late 80s and ran it in the ground so the team riders were all looking for work . Many of them switched to Suzuki so then Jeff became the engine guy for that team. At approximately the same time Team KTM asked for some help and Jeff built the 290cc engine that Kevin Hines used to win the National Enduro Championship.

And then came the Javelin, Randy Hawkins. Jeff had built engines for the new young punk from South Carolina while he was with Team Husqvarna but the funny talking kid came on strong when he got comfortable on his Slavens ported, Dale Stegal tuned RMX and later on YZs. Randy went on to win 73 Nationals, 7 National Enduro Championships, and 12 ISDE Gold Medals with Slavens Mule Motors. He was recently inducted into the Motorcycle Hall of Fame.

Now at age 62 Jeff enjoys traveling the world with his wife Sue to see the sites, architecture, learn about different cultures and find new friends and great places to eat. During the summer and fall you’ll find him riding the rocks on some of Colorado’s gnarliest trails.

Edited January 24, 2017 by RMK800

[rpt50]

I know exactly who Jeff Slavens is.  I just think his advice on oil is nonsense.  Here is my 95.5 hour 125 piston run at 32:1.  If you know how to jet and know how to ride, your bike will run clean, and your crank will likely last longer than you keep the bike.  

 

[Doc_speeder]

I just don't understand why so many guys are so horny to try and run a box of hot spinning/sliding expensive bits of aluminum and steel with as little lubrication as possible.

There's no trophy for 80:1 guys...

[RMK800]

I just don't understand why so many guys are so horny to try and run a box of hot spinning/sliding expensive bits of aluminum and steel with as little lubrication as possible.

There's no trophy for 80:1 guys...

That isn't the point. Jeff said that when rebuilding engines he noticed less wear compared to other oils. So he thinks its better for your motor. Obviously his shop rebuilds 1000's of motors, so he has seen it all. Edited January 24, 2017 by RMK800

[rpt50]

I just don't understand why so many guys are so horny to try and run a box of hot spinning/sliding expensive bits of aluminum and steel with as little lubrication as possible.

There's no trophy for 80:1 guys...

 

Ha ha yea I know.  What is the attraction of ratios like that????  It's really infected the KTM guys.

[KPRacing]

Sorry but Slavens is wrong on this oil topic.

Call & ask amsoil.

I know a guy (& his buddy) who was running the amsoil Saber at 80:1 in a 125. Theyz were going through topends like crazy & needing a crank halfway through the summer. I asked them what they were running for oil & if they were cleaning their air filters. Filter service was on point but his oiling of the engine was NOT. They were running 80:1 with amsoil Saber.

The engines were definately clean.

The dyno also shows that the engine likes more oil. 80:1 is so poor that I wouldn't even make a pull like that but from 32:1 to 40:1 is a difference of about 2hp in a high rpm 125cc shifter kart engine (...& about 3.5hp from 24:1 to 40:1).

There are other stories but...

Edited January 24, 2017 by KPRacing

[RMK800]

I know the oil ratio has been beaten to a dead horse in forums, but, when you have a shop that goes through a lot of motors over the years and you hear that endorsement it makes you wonder. Like I said, he sees it benefiting the motor over time. More curious than anything.

[clappedoutkx]

I know exactly who Jeff Slavens is. I just think his advice on oil is nonsense. Here is my 95.5 hour 125 piston run at 32:1. If you know how to jet and know how to ride, your bike will run clean, and your crank will likely last longer than you keep the bike.

That's pretty impressive wear for over 90.

Ha ha yea I know. What is the attraction of ratios like that???? It's really infected the KTM guys.

Not all of us.

[shrubitup]

Ran opti-2 100:1 in a KX250 for a year. No problems. It just felt so good to be wrong.  

[kxrob]

The rules are pretty straight forward

Smaller the bore or higher the motor is revved and longer

You need more oil

Bigger the bore , lower the revs you can get away with less oil

A good example is a trials bike , spends most of it's time idle or lower rpm so factory recommendations is 80-100:1

[numroe]

I run my weed blower on 32:1 Maxima 927. That poor little motor works hard. WOT most of the time. I love the smell too, so it motivates me to use it.

 

More RPMs and more oil passes through the motor.  Also more load and throttle and more wear.

 

"1 year at 100:1" in any motor doesn't explain enough to mean anything.

 

The bike owner's manual has to state some premix ratio assuming some type of motor usage and also a type of oil.

Edited January 24, 2017 by numroe

[Bricktop72]

I wouldn't even abuse my lawn equipment with 100:1

I run 32:1 in all my 2 cycle engines. Not only does it prolong engine life, it makes more power.

[AnimalMother85]

I run Klotz Techniplate Snowmobile oil at 40:1 in my YZ250. I run Stihl at 50:1 in my chainsaws, which run much harder and longer. My brother runs Motorex Cross Power in his TE300...which it's warrantied for. What about outboard engines?

Things I've learned over the years:

•Not all two-stroke oil is created equally.

•Two-stroke oil has really evolved over the past 10 years.

•If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

•The little details add up.

If some guys use Brand X at 80:1 and it works well, while other guys use Brand X at 80:1 and they end up smoking engines, there is obviously another variable. Weather it's shoddy assembly, a small fib, or who knows. I'm not a chemical engineer nor do I work for any of the companies that make the oil. I also don't know how much the metal in my Yamadawg differs from my brother's White KTM. I do know that some people have reassembled their engines with poor applications of gasket sealant, unclean mating services, and overall poor quality control, even though they think they've done everything right.

Will I go to 60:1, 80:1, or 100:1? I don't know. I'd love to use the same ratio as my brother, just so we can use the same fuel can.

The Navy has lasers that can shoot through 123 feet of steel in less than a second. I'm sure a privatized oil company can make an oil that runs just fine at 80:1.

[KPRacing]

I run Klotz Techniplate Snowmobile oil at 40:1 in my YZ250. I run Stihl at 50:1 in my chainsaws, which run much harder and longer. My brother runs Motorex Cross Power in his TE300...which it's warrantied for. What about outboard engines?

Things I've learned over the years:

•Not all two-stroke oil is created equally.

•Two-stroke oil has really evolved over the past 10 years.

•If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

•The little details add up.

If some guys use Brand X at 80:1 and it works well, while other guys use Brand X at 80:1 and they end up smoking engines, there is obviously another variable. Weather it's shoddy assembly, a small fib, or who knows. I'm not a chemical engineer nor do I work for any of the companies that make the oil. I also don't know how much the metal in my Yamadawg differs from my brother's White KTM. I do know that some people have reassembled their engines with poor applications of gasket sealant, unclean mating services, and overall poor quality control, even though they think they've done everything right.

Will I go to 60:1, 80:1, or 100:1? I don't know. I'd love to use the same ratio as my brother, just so we can use the same fuel can.

The Navy has lasers that can shoot through 123 feet of steel in less than a second. I'm sure a privatized oil company can make an oil that runs just fine at 80:1.

No offense but lots of assumptions.

A laser beam has nothing to do with oil

The Saber oil is the lowest man on the totem pole as far as rankings in the amsoil lineup. So by no means it is some super oil that ends all.

Again, contact amsoil & ask them. Not just a salesman but an actual tech.

[Piney Woods]

Oh boy, Jeff Slavens is no you tube guy! Your comments make it appear he has no hands on experience. That is so far from the truth. So Slavens Racing doesn't offer any validity at all? He is in the Motorcycle hall of fame! I think he is an expert! or tell me what you would call an expert?

Haven't put anything yet in the bike, thanks for the feedback.

Obviously Jeff is well known. Some history in case you guys forgot.

Jeff Slavens is a 43 year veteran of the motorcycle industry, having worked as a line mechanic, factory mechanic, dealership owner/operator and current owner of Jeff Slavens Racing, Mondial Investment Properties and The Verdun Group.

In the 70s he and his two brothers raced Maicos. It was kind of a Team Maico Slavens, but as Randy Hawkins once stated, too many stallions in the same barn is not always a good thing. Every race day their mother was worried sick because when the gate dropped (back then it was actually a rubber band) the brotherly love was gone and the race was ON and they thought nothing of taking out the other in the pursuit of the win.

Those early Maico days are where Jeff’s engine and suspension skills began to develop. Maico Break-O was not allowed if you wanted to beat your brother so there were endless hours devoted to repairs, rebuilds, tuning, and suspension mods. He and his brothers studied magazine pictures of the factory Maico team bikes and cut, bent, and welded their frames to accommodate a lay-down shock position and increase wheel travel. From there shock and fork mods were developed by Team Slavens because there were no off the shelf items available.

His first affiliation with factory race teams was in the 80s with the then dominate Team Husqvarna. Later in the 80s and 90s it was with Team KTM and Team Suzuki and from then until now with Randy Hawkins Team Am Pro Yamaha.

aboutSlavens

When he worked for the Husky team he ported cylinders and did head mods for the entire team (enduro, HS, desert, mx). Boxes with dozens of cylinders (for the many National Champions and up and comers like Randy Hawkins) would arrive several times per year and of course they always needed them yesterday.

Also, during the 80s he started a long working relationship with then new comer Rodney Smith, who rode MX for Team Yamaha at the time. They first met just a few minutes before the first moto of a Washougal, Washington National MX. Jeff was there tuning for top ten Yamaha rider, Mark Flesia, when Rodney rode up and asked for help. His YZ125 was a dog, so Jeff took it for a little test spin in the jetting area. He returned and told Rodney to run up to the start line and pick a starting position while he rode the bike over to Rodney’s pit and started barking out orders to Rodney’s dad whom he had never met. They tore the carb apart in record time, changed some brass and Jeff blasted up to the starting line where engines were running. Rodney hopped on the bike, pulled the holeshot, and they’ve been friends every since. Rodney went on to win 5 Brazilian national Championships, placed 3rd in the World 250 MXGP, 3 National HS Championships, 5 National Reliability Championships, 6 ISDE Gold Medals (top American twice), and 5 GNCC Championships.

In the 80s Husqvarna was the dominant team in all types of off-road racing and Jeff was the cylinder and head guy for the entire team. Cagiva bought Husqvarna in the late 80s and ran it in the ground so the team riders were all looking for work . Many of them switched to Suzuki so then Jeff became the engine guy for that team. At approximately the same time Team KTM asked for some help and Jeff built the 290cc engine that Kevin Hines used to win the National Enduro Championship.

And then came the Javelin, Randy Hawkins. Jeff had built engines for the new young punk from South Carolina while he was with Team Husqvarna but the funny talking kid came on strong when he got comfortable on his Slavens ported, Dale Stegal tuned RMX and later on YZs. Randy went on to win 73 Nationals, 7 National Enduro Championships, and 12 ISDE Gold Medals with Slavens Mule Motors. He was recently inducted into the Motorcycle Hall of Fame.

Now at age 62 Jeff enjoys traveling the world with his wife Sue to see the sites, architecture, learn about different cultures and find new friends and great places to eat. During the summer and fall you’ll find him riding the rocks on some of Colorado’s gnarliest trails.

This times 71! He may be young but I would still trust him with my bike over anyone in the industry. None are his equal. Period!

Edited January 24, 2017 by YHGEORGE

[Sierra_rider]

I didn't believe the 80:1 claims until some friends started running it. Last teardown I did, I still had a pool of residual oil at the bottom of the crank...so I think I've got enough oil. I'm not just some mellow trail plonker either. My bike see's a lot of low-rpm on the more technical trails, but does get revved a lot as it opens up. 

 

As far as Saber being a "low-tech" oil for aircooled motors...I put quite a few hours running chainsaws and while they do make less power per cc, IMO they are not lightly stressed motors. I'm fairly certain my saws see higher operating temps than my bikes and do it all at WOT, while buried in a log. Most saws are tuned to run at 13k rpm for extended periods of time.

[KPRacing]

This times 71! He may be young but I would still trust him with my bike over anyone in the industry. None are his equal. Period!

Very bold statement...

...but I respectfully disagree.