Wiseco piston issue? Anyone else?

[400bird62]

Just had my 98 rm cylinder replated by Power seal. Very fast job, About two weeks. Bought a wiseco +.080 piston from them as well as the gasket kit. Got it in the mail yesterday and put it in today. Ran great for 5 minutes. Then....seized. So I thought. Tore it down and found my piston wrist pin clip destroyed my piston and cylinder! Now before you say rookie mistake, I have installed no less than 20 top ends with out any issues. Here's what happened. When I put the new clips in, the first one fit perfect, of course. When I put the second one in it didn't feel right. I pushed it with a craftsman "poker" I always use. It was as far as it would go. Just didn't seem like it "clicked" in. Went in the house and got a magnifing glass. Looked at it and it was in the slot. OK, all is well. "After" the disaster, and after I found out what had happened, I took the piston off and put the pin back in. Grabbed a Wiseco clip I had from the +.080 piston I took out and put it in the new (trashed) piston. Same piston same clip. Felt the same as

when I put it in the first time. Looked at again with magnifing glass and it apperaed to be in the slot. For the heck of it I put a marker in the opposite end and pushed on the pin. Guess what, it popped right out!! Did it again....popped out again. Had a friend come over and asked him to put the clip in. He did and then I asked him to push the pin from the other side. he did and POP, it popped out. Neither of us ever saw that happen before. We put a new Wiseco piston and pin in his RMX250 tonight and I noticed there is few thousands of an inch clearence between the pin and the clips. Not on Mine though. Either the pin is to long or the grove was machined to close together. There is no way to get it to fall in the grove all the way. It looks like it is, but it is probably only half way in. I tried to call Power Seal but they are already closed. I called Wiseco and the rep said lets cut to the chase. You can send it in for our lab to see if it is a defect or I can sell you a new one for $50.00.

I thanked him but said I think I should talk with Power Seal first. They have been great so far.

Here are the questions:

1. Have any of you had this problem? Not a clip coming out, but actually finding out it won't clip in?

2. What do you think I should do? Is it on my dime at this point?

3. Should Wiseco be reponsible for the gouged newly plated cylinder if the part is defective?

4. I puposely bought all parts from PowerSeal, a wiseco dealer, so all the parts would fit perfectly. I could have bought a piston on ebay a lot cheaper. Should they help me with dealing with Wiseco? Should they charge me to re-plate?

5. Would you send the piston clips and pin to Wiseco or Power Seal to verify the issue. I feel better about sending it to Power Seal since so far they have been great. Wiseco rep sounded more like ..yea yea yea.

OK, Lay it on me. After today, you can't make me feel any worse. Don't hold back!

Dale

[dirtynidge]

Mate that is some bad luck!!

I would pursue it as it wasn't just the piston which was damaged.

From a machinists point of view it sounds like you say, either the circlip grooves are machined too close together or they have machined the circlip groove too shallow. Errors in small I/D grooves arent the easiest thing to pick-up during QC checks.

Will the clip drop in fully with the wrist pin removed?? Can you compare the wrist pin length to the old one? (although specs may differ with manufacturers)

If you suspect it is a manufacturing fault chase wiseco about it, if there is an error they will soon find out they have done it on many more than yours if they are not already aware of it.

It wouldnt be a bad idea to send it to Power Seal as they are impartial and hopefully will confirm machining faults before you go any further.

[500XC]

I haven't had any problems with my Wiseco top ends (5 two strokes, 3 four).

My Wossener top end seemed a little finickier than the Wiseco pistons.

I have seen the wrong clips shipped with pistons before, but that was with Baja motorsports parts (shh.. I didn't say nothing.)

Did you try putting the finicky clip in first and seating the pin against it?

Personally, I'd send it back and have them inspect it. Powerseal has a good rep for customer service, almost as good as the shop I go to (Mongoose Machining).

[mihylo33]

I would get in touch with Powerseal and see what they say then run a conference call between yourself and the 2.

Good luck

[alex211]

I just put a new wiseco piston in my 98 with a fresh cylinder replated by powerseal, everything went fine.

[ForsheeMS]

I had the exact same thing happen a while back and it took me over an hour to figure it out. Turns out the chamfer on the wrist pin was incorrect and wouldn't let the clip fit all the way into the groove. Luckily I had a new spare pin and was able to finish the top end using it.

[KX02]

I hear too many bad stories about Wiseco to ever put one in my bike. Thanks for the info.

[Yamajeb]

I've had great success with Wiseco for years. But I would certainly get them involved in some sort of restitution - the idea of a conference call between Powerseal and Wiseco is a great one.

[ForsheeMS]

Don't take my earlier post the wrong way. I've used tons of Wiseco pistons over the years and only had this one problem. Any manufactured part can be made wrong. In my case, I was able to catch it. I'm very picky about the pin locks for this exact reason. When I checked mine the clip was "in the slot" however looking at it through a magnifying glass in was not fully seated in the groove. Using a different wrist pin fixed the problem.

I have used Wiseco's since and will continue to use them as they are very good quality but anything that is mass produced can have a problem.

[400bird62]

Thanks for all the advice. I called PowerSeal today and spoke with one of the owners. Great guy. Told me " let's figure this out together". I told him I would send the parts to him to look at. He said he would then probably have to send them to Wiseco. What I liked the most was he was very non-defensive. He didn't make any promises he couldn't keep based on my one side of the story. I hung up knowing I would get a fair opinion from him of what the problem is. I searched long and hard before I choose Power Seal in the first place. They were the least expensive, which helped, but when I called them to get prices for the job they were great on the phone. They assured me the job would be done right and I would be happy. Other companies just said the price and it will take about three weeks. Anyway, sent it off today. They will get it about 3 PM on Friday. I'll see what happens next!

Dale

p.s. I like the idea of a CC to get things moving. Thanks!

[Wiseco]

Hi 400Bird. I read your post and if what you say is true, I can assure we will take care of the situation. Please continue to work with Powerseal, but in the end it sounds like we will probably need to get a look at the part to verify what is going on. PLEASE - if Powerseal doesn't get it taken care of for you (or through us), PM me directly and I will see that the situation is resolved to your satisfaction.

[400bird62]

Thanks for the assurance. Powerseal called today and said they had the same issue with the pin. He said he couldn't even get the clip in place. He called his Wiseco rep and said he would call me when he heard back from the rep. I have always used Wiseco pistons. I had a Kawasaki KDX piston explode and send part of it through both cases. I would never use anything other than Wiseco. I counted the number of top ends over the last 30 years and it's closer to 30 than it is to 20. Started with a 76 CR125 Elsinore in 77. Your pistons have always been perfect. Mistakes happen. At first I thought it was my mistake. How it gets handled tells the real story about a company. In this case, I am very glad I decided to use Powerseal. Even before the problem they exceeded my expectations with communication and delivery time. With this post from you on a public forum it tells me you want to make it right as well. I appreciate that. I think the other readers will appreciate knowing you stand behind your products. Regardless how this turns out, I will continue to use Wiseco for all my rebuilds. Likewise, I won't think twice about sending a cylinder to Powerseal with a do what it needs directive because they have earned my trust. Forever. Thanks again and let's hope we can get that bike back together soon. Having to take my KDX 220 to the track with my son on his RM85.....and that's just embarrassing!

[zig06]

Wow, this sucks, but you did the right thing. Weisco is just like any other company products, everything has a tolerance and their machine tools wear like everyone else's. Sure, their QC department should have caught it, but those guys go on break just like you and I...

Anyways, so far it looks like you should be getting a new top end ~ for free! But no matter what happens, please keep us informed!

And for what it's worth, even though KDX's are not "not exactly" MX bikes, at least you get to ride!