talon hub bearing question

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

i have the white bros excel/talon supermoto wheels. i have about 14,000 miles on them.

today i noticed some squealing from the rear wheel when i rolled the bike.

once the axle nut was loosened, the squealing stopped.

i'm thinking i may need rear wheel bearings.

there's about 1/64" of play on the spacer on the rotor side. the sprocket side is tight.

my questions

does the spacer just get driven out? it's a single spacer running thru the hub. it seams like it's fixed & i don't want to damage it.

any ideas of where i can locate these bearings? i would like to have the bearings before pulling the old ones.

is 14,000 miles normal for these bearings. it seams like a real short life to me.

they may actually be good, but i really need remove the spacer and/or the seals to be sure.

[Rib Eye]

When I removed the bearings from my stock 06 drzs, I used a horse shoe stake and drove the bearing out from the opposite side. The long spacer can be pushed to the side so you can get the punch or whatever on the bearing. The spacer is essentially just floating between the bearings on either side.

I bought my most recent bearings off of ebay, I'll try to remember which seller it was.

[Noble]

I do not know how Tallon hubs are made but I suspect you are telling me there is an adaper bushing in the bearing to size it to the axle. A parts blow-up of the hub would clarify. (Tallon.com?) There will be an inner spacer between the bearings even if there is an adapter bushing all the way thru. If you take the wheel off you can probably tell better what you have and how it comes apart. And I think you will need to remove the bearings to get the bearing numbers unless Tallon has that info on a web site.

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

I do not know how Tallon hubs are made but I suspect you are telling me there is an adaper bushing in the bearing to size it to the axle. A parts blow-up of the hub would clarify. (Tallon.com?) There will be an inner spacer between the bearings even if there is an adapter bushing all the way thru. If you take the wheel off you can probably tell better what you have and how it comes apart. And I think you will need to remove the bearings to get the bearing numbers unless Tallon has that info on a web site.

i probably used the wrong term. the wheel is off of the bike.

there is a sleeve that runs throught the hub, through the inner diameter of both left & right bearings. it also extends beyond the outer surfaces of the seal about 1/4". the wheel spacers inner diameter then slides onto the outer diameter of the mentioned sleeve. there not typical drz spacers or hubs.

i removed the wheel spacers & gave it a light wack with a block of wood & a hammer & there was no real movement. it seams to make contact with something with any movement left or right.

as mentioned, i just don't want to mess anything up. thought maybe someone had the same or similar hubs & had that sleeve out. also concerned about the short life if one or both are actually bad.

i'll have a closer look tomorrow. maybe i can get a pic up if i'm still having problems.

[Noble]

Tallon hubs are universal so they use adapter bushings to fit specific applications. I just don't know exactly how Tallon does that. I can think of several ways. I would try to consult a parts breakdown for the hub.

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

thanks ralph.

i'll see what i can find today.

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

i got it apart today. i have everything apart except for the 25 sprocket side bearings. they seem o.k..

once i pulled the outer seal on the rotor side, i could see where the play was coming from. the bearing was floating inside the hub on that side. the bearing is tight on the shaft & the bearing is probably o.k.. i haven't pulled it's seal to investigate, but it's pretty tight.

is my hub shot? in hindsight, i'd be happy if the bearing was shot.

i guess i can only try new bearings & see what how tight it fits.

[Noble]

If the outer race of the bearing is loose or spinning in the hub - how do I say this - you are screwed. For a correct press fit the hub ID is about .002 smaller than the bearing OD. Up to maybe .002 clearance fit can be corrected with Loctite. After that it is time for a new hub or carefull machining over size for a larger bearing (if there is one that will work) or a sleeve to get back to the original size. Aslo some investigation is needed to determine why this happened in the first place. I suspect something was not right to start with.

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

If the outer race of the bearing is loose or spinning in the hub - how do I say this - you are screwed. For a correct press fit the hub ID is about .002 smaller than the bearing OD. Up to maybe .002 clearance fit can be corrected with Loctite. After that it is time for a new hub or carefull machining over size for a larger bearing (if there is one that will work) or a sleeve to get back to the original size. Aslo some investigation is needed to determine why this happened in the first place. I suspect something was not right to start with.

yup, i hear ya... i'm screwed!?

i was thinking of the machining idea with a steel sleeve. i'll have to look into it.

i was really surprised to see this. the only thing i can contribute it to would be the fact that my wheel was out of true for a while until recently.

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/garage.php?do=viewattachment&attachmentid=59391

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/garage.php?do=viewattachment&attachmentid=59392

[Noble]

I see you have your calipers handy. Check the distance between the shoulders on the internal spacer vs the distance between the bearings in the hub. Spacer shoulders shoud be just a little longer. At least .010 to maybe .060. If the spacer is too short, the bearings get pinched when the axle is tightened and bind up. I think you said there are 2 bearings on the drive side and 1 on the brake side, so the brake side fails first (if that was the problem).

At this point I would determine how much the hub is warn and if a new bearing can be stabalized with Loctite or JB weld. If not, then check out what the next size bearing outer race is. Inner race can always be sleeved up.

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

thanks again ralph. i'll check what you mentioned.

i always have the dial caliper handy. the good one is in the drawer.

the wear isn't as bad as i first thought.

i should be able to use the jb weld. i was thinking i could apply it to the hub & smooth it out by sanding, as opposed to actually jb welding the bearing into the hub.

if locktite bonds to jb weld, i'll use that when i press the bearing in.

once again, i really appreciate your time:worthy:

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

it appears the spacer shoulders are long enough. but the wheel spacers fit over the ends of the aluminum sleeve in my pic.

it appears that once the axle is tightened, the spacers both contact the inner race(smaller diameter)of the wheel bearings. is that not correct.

[Noble]

Yes, that is correct. The outer seal spacers contact the bearing inner races and the internal spacer (in this case the shoulders on the adapter) take all the compression load. No axial load is transfered across the balls. For this to be reliable, the bearing outer race does not contact the hub shoulder on one side of the hub. On the stock DRZ400 hub, the bearing "float" is on the drive side.

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

i got good measurements today of the spacer & bearing seating surfaces in the hub.

the shaft is .050 longer than the seating surfaces in the hub.

after removing the other two bearings, it is obvious the seating surface on the rotor side is worn. which is evidence the bearing was getting pinched.

i guess it clearanced itself.

there's a good amount of dust inside of the hub from all the self clearancing.

is .050" enough clearance? or should i space out the shaft a little?

any opinions on wether the hub or spacer were machined incorrectly.

i did find talons website. it appears they are in the uk. i'm thinking i should drop them an email.

[Noble]

After removing the other two bearings, it is obvious the seating surface on the rotor side is worn. Which is evidence the bearing was getting pinched. I guess it clearanced itself.---- I wondered about that.

Is .050" enough clearance?-----Yes. Plenty. The adapter spacer will shorten a little from the compression load but not .050.

Any opinions on wether the hub or spacer were machined incorrectly.----If the bearing was pinched, something was wrong. Only Talon would have the specification dimensions for the hub and adapter spacer. The problem I have seen on some bicycle hubs is the hub and spacer are made to the same dimension. Tolerances can work for you or against you so half the time they wind up with bearing pinch. I'm not real impressed with the 3 piece welded design of the Talon adapter/spacer. I would prefer to see it one piece and the diameter between the bearings as large as the welded on shoulders. That would be much more solid.

At this point I would fix the hub by whatever way you think will work, assemble it with new bearings, put the outer seal spacers in place and put the axle in. Find some temporary spacers to take the place of the swing arm so you can tighten the nut. Make sure it all spins free - no bind when the nut is tightened.

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

not that many (if any) care, but i thought i'd update this thread.

talon replaced the hub for me free of charge. i received it today.

i am really impressed with their customer service. i didn't ask for a new hub. i just sent them an email describing the damage, how many miles, how old, condition of bearings, etc..

they requested pics. i provided pics. they replied they had seen this type of damage, but only when bearings were bad and that they would have their american importer replace it.

i put a new bearing in the rotor side on the damaged hub & jb welded it in place. only rode a little, but so far so good.

so, in a nutshell, even though i still don't know what went wrong with the first one, a big ? to talon.

[pompeywoods]

How did you actually get the spacers out etc. I have the same issue on Talon hubs where I can get the seal out on the right side (non brake disk) but not on the left (brake disk) side.

The central spacer wont move with soft mallet and scared to wallop it with something heavy until I am sure its supposed to move. I cant even pull off the outer spacer on the left which fits over the central spacer and as such cant get the seal off either.

Do I just give it a good smack or is there a secret technique? I was expecting that bearing removal would be a problem but I havent even got that far yet!

any confidence inspiring advice would be appreciated

[Harvey600]

If you don't have any joy on here try calling Talon here

[ROUNDEYEHELMETHEAD]

How did you actually get the spacers out etc. I have the same issue on Talon hubs where I can get the seal out on the right side (non brake disk) but not on the left (brake disk) side.

The central spacer wont move with soft mallet and scared to wallop it with something heavy until I am sure its supposed to move. I cant even pull off the outer spacer on the left which fits over the central spacer and as such cant get the seal off either.

Do I just give it a good smack or is there a secret technique? I was expecting that bearing removal would be a problem but I havent even got that far yet!

any confidence inspiring advice would be appreciated

one of the bearings needs to come out to get the center sleeve/spacer out IIRC.

the spacer should have a little left to right play.

you should be able to get a punch to catch on the bearing.

it's been a while & my memory is short.