Shell Rotella T synthetic 5W-40 oil

[Old-Man]

I was wondering if any of you CRF250X people use Shell Rotella T synthetic 5W-40 oil in your bike? If you do, do you use it in both ends?

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[Hawaii-Rider]

yes

both sides

only oil I use in all my bikes (6) 4 stroke or 2.

On tear down, parts look like new!

HR

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[jvann13]

I will be putting it in both my bike the next oil change. I have been reading up on it and it has gotten good reviews.

[Old-Man]

I have been using it since I got our bikes. But today someone told me it's not good for the bike. He said to use on honda oil in it only. I asked him why, and he said it's just not all that good. He said that's why people are having valve problems with this bike. He said if I used honda oil I would not have valve problems. I took it with a grain of salt, but I thought I would just ask about it. I plan on using it for a long time.

Thanks!

[spizz5]

I use it in my CRF, my sons KX85, and other sons KTM50 Sr. It sure has been a long time since I had any internal engine problems. As far as any oil eliminating the valve issue is B.S. Oil really doesn`t get to the valve heads and seats anyways.

[reconranger]

Oil issues are always controversial! Some good reading to start with (reprinted from MX Action): http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm

First off, I consider Rotella to be a "car" oil (as definid in the article above). It just doesn't have the extra anti-scuff additives that you need for your transmission, where the gears are thrashing your oil to death at high pressure! I would stick to a Motorcycle Specific JASO MA oil, or one of the Transmission Specific Lubes (Maxima MTL or the red Honda trans oil), in your the wet clutch transmission.

On the engine side, you could run Rotella with no problems, but I don't think it is the best choice among all the oils that are out there. Rotella is a group III "synthetic" which is better than the group I and II petroleum oils, but all three are inferior to the group IV PAO's (Mobil 1 and Amsoil). And more important, the PAO's are infreior to the group V Ester Synthetics (Maxima Extra..... or Ultra if you are a racer)! http://www.maximausa.com/technical/lubenews/LubeNews2002.pdf

After much study on all the issues, I choose to run Maxima Extra, an Ester Synthetic API SG/JASO MA oil in both my engine and trans sides.

[Old-Man]

reconranger, I do understand what your saying, but with a car you change your oil every 3,000 to 5,000 miles. With my bike I change it ever two or three rides. I'm guessing about 100 miles. Do you think it's going to break down that much in that short of a time?

I would really like to know who makes Honda's oil. I wouldn't be shocked if it's one other the brands we all use, but under another name. I have to say I'm shocked how many companys don't even make most of the products they sell. I know of one company that makes a product and a lot of other companys buy it from them and sell it under another name. You will see some sell it for 5 times as much as others. I think it's come down to the name of the product and the company selling it.

[reconranger]

It isn't a matter of the oil "breaking down". It is a matter of the car oils NEVER HAVING THOSE NECESSARY ADDITIVES IN THE FIRST PLACE! Car oils can't contain these, because they would destroy a car's catalytic converter. Car oils just get worse every day.........

[reconranger]

Honda's GN4 is just a simple petroleum oil. Their HP4 is a synthetic blend of GN4 and a pretty good amount of ester synthetic additive (you can tell by the smell). I once liked HP4 back when it was still API SG, but it has now gone SJ so I could not recommend it anymore.

[54321]

Oil issues are always controversial! Some good reading to start with (reprinted from MX Action): http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm

First off, I consider Rotella to be a "car" oil (as definid in the article above). It just doesn't have the extra anti-scuff additives that you need for your transmission, where the gears are thrashing your oil to death at high pressure! I would stick to a Motorcycle Specific JASO MA oil, or one of the Transmission Specific Lubes (Maxima MTL or the red Honda trans oil), in your the wet clutch transmission.

On the engine side, you could run Rotella with no problems, but I don't think it is the best choice among all the oils that are out there. Rotella is a group III "synthetic" which is better than the group I and II petroleum oils, but all three are inferior to the group IV PAO's (Mobil 1 and Amsoil). And more important, the PAO's are infreior to the group V Ester Synthetics (Maxima Extra..... or Ultra if you are a racer)! http://www.maximausa.com/technical/lubenews/LubeNews2002.pdf

After much study on all the issues, I choose to run Maxima Extra, an Ester Synthetic API SG/JASO MA oil in both my engine and trans sides.

Excellent comments Recon,

For years I've heard guys rave about Rotella T. I finally tried it in my little

XR250. The bike immediatley made some funky sounds. I rode 3 days in the

desert......probably 200 to 250 miles total. I pulled the Rotella out and it

was FULL of more metallic particles than I've ever seen.

Lots of Brass ? Even more than come out of a new bikes' oil.

As mentioned, oil threads can get pretty crazy. My neighboor works at Chevron (Richmond, CA). He says Rotella T is a very good product but NOT

for a high revving, single four stroke. He said it works best in Diesel engines.

He said the best oil I can possibly use is exactly what I was using before.

Motul 5100 semi-synthetic ester based or Motul pure synthetic (ester). As Recon noted, ester based synthetics are rated highest by the experts.

With the Motul the oil stays CLEAR and clean for a long time. Like 400 to 500 miles. The Rotella became cloudy after just a few hours. Why?

Frank, my Oil Chemist buddy, said it contains too much detergent. It's a super

high detergent oil which diesels need. (so he claims). He says its the washing machine effect.

He said I could MIX oil if I wanted to. So I'm using the Rotella in my Suzuki Vstrom1000 Street bike. I'm mixing it with Chevron regular oil, 50-50. All looks good so far. The Suzuki is liquid cooled. I will check for metal particles in another 1000 miles.

On the CRF I've also heard a trans specific synthetic is best. Not regular motor oil. Just my .02 cents.

[Hawaii-Rider]

Rotella isnt a "Car" oil.

Its an oil designed for Diesel engines (an by the way meets and routinely exceeds every gas engine oil specs out there)

Its designed specifically for the loads, extreme heat and shear, blow-by etc generated in diesel motors, very similar to the loads etc etc that get generated in modern extremely high HP, high revving 4-strokes. It is also designed to flow better when it is not at operating temps, so that it flows when cold, better allowing engine and component protection (read lubrication) when you first start the bike and all the oil has dropped etc. Majority of wear etc in any engine is cause at start up, cause the oil aint circulating yet, or isnt flowing properly due to cold oil etc.

Also the "heavy duty" or diesel engine oils are closer to the formulation requirements of the SG than any others. Diesel engine oils have higher, if not the highest zinc content than most other oils which from my research and personal experience is a good thing as well. Zinc is that "stuff" that has been vanishing from oils lately, but is a key additive to oil. Its the "stuff" that oil makers "add" to oil to provide extra protection to engines under high loads and high RPMs (hmmm whats that sound like).

Go the Mobil or Chevron web sites and check over their "motorcycle" oils and the Zinc compounds they talk about adding, what they do and why, that are above and beyond their "car oils". This stuff provides a final barrier to metal to metal contact, reduces oxidation in the oils, reduction in varnishes, carbon, sticking rings, corrosion on bearings on and on.

Youre right in the discussion about oils is touchy to some. Me, I did a ton of research about diesel engine oils, and the chemistry behind them and is why I run the Rotella.

Its not a car oil, car oil would fail in a diesel truck and then the engine would = beyond expensive.

When you look at the HP, loads, shear, soot, heat etc that is generated in a modern 4-stroke racing engine (and what oil makers try to blend oils to protect against) and that of a diesel engine, then go compare the compounds of "high performance 4 stroke motorcycle oils" vs High quality diesel oils, it all comes together, at least for this old balding phart.

To each their own, lots of good solutions out there to protect your motor, me, I use Rotella and change it often...been good to me for thousands and thousands of miles. Right now in two WR250f, my CRF-270X, CRF230, Gas Gas EC300, my 7.3l international diesel engine, and next oil change, my wife's new Honda Ridgeline truck. All the engines run quieter, and in the bikes, shift much smoother. Cant tell you how impressed I am when I do routine maintenance or change out pistons in the race bikes and the top ends etc look new out of the bag.

Aint gonna mess with something that aint broke.

HR

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[reconranger]

Motul 5100 is excellent oil, and might be my second choice if Maxima didn't exist. Klotz has some nice ester oils as well.

The "diesel" thing just means that it has loads of detergent to clean up the sooty emissions (as was already mentioned). Detergents have no lubricating ability themselves, so their presence decreases the lubricating qualities of the oil. This makes them even less of a good choice for your CRF.

And, diesel oils are due for a serious downgrade in the near future (can't remember the exact date) to help meet emissions, so if you have a favorite diesel oil, stock up on it now!

[Hawaii-Rider]

Run what you want in your rides, lots of good oils, pick one and change it often.

Saying the only difference in the Rotella is the high detergent levels, which actually measurably decreases its lubricating properties is unique, independent testing, ratings and standard specification requirements dont support that.

Run what works for you, all that matters!

I know the Rotella T works for me, 1000s of hard miles on the bikes and races and numerous tear downs to show for it, as well as 10s of thousands on other vehicles.

Hey if peanut oil works for you, run it.

Its all good!

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HR

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[Throttlejockey]

I would really like to know who makes Honda's oil. I wouldn't be shocked if it's one other the brands we all use, but under another name. I have to say I'm shocked how many companys don't even make most of the products they sell. I know of one company that makes a product and a lot of other companys buy it from them and sell it under another name. You will see some sell it for 5 times as much as others. I think it's come down to the name of the product and the company selling it.

Mobil makes Honda oils.

[Cavi]

I use the Rotella T, semi syn, as it is a bit thicker in the tranny side and full syn Mobile 1 for cars (now gold top) in the engine side. I think the semi syn rotella T is better for the tranny as it is like 15-50 (if I remember right) instead of a 5- somthing which I feel is a bit thin for a tranny.

[ray_ray]

Interesting as most of this applies today, 3+ years later.... GTL is the next oil invention coming in 2010 I hear It's gonna be cool and we can start all oil threads all over again!!!

Also, interesting in the similarities in what we call 'diesel oil' and what we think is needed for our 4-strokes...AKA 1) a base oil (cost seems to drive this one), 2) high detergents for cleaning, and 3) shear resistant...

It is also interesting how most seem to buy an oil going by the oils 'name' on the bottle, totally disregarding its weight, and ingredients

No real problem here because most all of these oils are very good since group III oils have arrived. And most of us do not need the ester top of the line oils and they are very expensive also. Castro broke into synthetics years ago via a court case so these oil guys really know how to promote products well....

[moto_x2005]

to this day ill still never put a "diesel or car oil" in any of my bikes... theres been a few oil analysis studies done and the results werent as good as everyone thinks.. im trying to find them now, why put that oil in it when theres better proven oils thats made for these applications?

[ray_ray]

I don't think it will hurt a bike to run them from time to time but I'm not going that way either unless the cost drives me to them..

I've got Motorex 10w-60 ( PAO and ester blend) in my bike now and will try to send out an oil sample to be analyzed at next oil change and see how the oil has held up. This is expensive oil but if I can get 1000 offroad and highways miles, it might be worth it...

Viscosity is what I want to see first and then maybe a count of active additive left in a sample of oil...This should remove some of the guess work about when to change the oil...

[nd4spdbh]

Here is my story.... 2004 CRF250x... first batch from china into the la harbor... i bought one. did the proper break in...

As far as oil / maintence i have always done my own. For the first 3.5 yrs of the bikes life i used castrol gtx 10-30 standard car oil with energy saving additives...yes yes i know its not whats recommended but thats what i ran... never had a problem (clutch wouldnt grab super hard but im pretty nice to my clutch) I then got a 06 250R cam and decided i would start to run castrol 4T 10-40w ... been running that and never had a problem. I run the piss out of my bike, on my 7th rear tire (we are talking wearing the tire down to where its a slick in the center) and 4th front for a gauge on how much i ride.... i do 50/50 trail track riding and am always hard on the trottle.... yet have only had to adjust my exhaust valves once cus they were .001 out of spec.... that was before my R cam... put the R cam in valves havnt moved at all.

As far as rotella T 15-40 (standard oil) i put some in my New honda 919 street bike, noticeably smoother shifting and i plan on puttin that in my CRF next oil change.

Really and especially with the CRF engine oil (we are talking it uses less than 1 quart) you just gotta change it often, there isnt much oil and it gets chewed up QUICK regardless of the stuff you use....

The moral of my story... just change your engine oil often, it really dont matter what you put in it so long as its engine oil!!!

[Throttlejockey]

I use the Rotella T, semi syn, as it is a bit thicker in the tranny side and full syn Mobile 1 for cars (now gold top) in the engine side. I think the semi syn rotella T is better for the tranny as it is like 15-50 (if I remember right) instead of a 5- somthing which I feel is a bit thin for a tranny.

5 is the viscosity when started cold.

From HowStuffWorks-

Multi-weight oils (such as 10W-30) are a new invention made possible by adding polymers to oil. The polymers allow the oil to have different weights at different temperatures. The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature. This page from the Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ offers the following very interesting description of how the polymers work:

At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.