What's your power curve/ RPM range on your KTM 500 EXCF 17-19? Bike running like garbage and can't figure out how to fix it.

[Spud786]

3 minutes ago, kayakingguy said:

Running... that's the key. ? My own stupidity/zealous desire to modify the KTM is to blame, I'll admit. But back in the day with a carb'd bike I could change jetting no problem... fighting TPS sensors and ECU's etc... sucks.  Never had to worry about a new exhaust or some other thing being such a big deal.

I may not be frustrated enough to sell/trade the KTM (YET), but I sure wouldn't buy an EFI dirtbike again. I'm too old and stuck in my ways to enjoy this process.

Other than the tps,  external efi mapping is just like changing jets, your just pushing buttons or dials instead. But the Premise is the same, idle, low speed, midrange and topend, its really much easier than the labor to change jets. PLUS you can field test multiple fuel settings, before you could even remove 1 jet.

Now the standard vortex set up is 555 on the dials , and for most people, they dont touch it.

I run a 556 setting with straight through open exhaust,  with a little fuel pulled off idle and the lower midrange with fuel tuner, and its very Good , as an example.  Otherwise Im slightly fat below half throttle , the fuel tuner is able to clean that up ,increasing the power output , and throttle quality.

 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Spud786 said:

Other than the tps,  external efi mapping is just like changing jets, your just pushing buttons or dials instead. But the Premise is the same, idle, low speed, midrange and topend, its really much easier than the labor to change jets. PLUS you can field test multiple fuel settings, before you could even remove 1 jet.

Now the standard vortex set up is 555 on the dials , and for most people, they dont touch it.

I run a 556 setting with straight through open exhaust,  with a little fuel pulled off idle and the lower midrange with fuel tuner, and its very Good , as an example.  Otherwise Im slightly fat below half throttle , the fuel tuner is able to clean that up ,increasing the power output , and throttle quality.

 

 

Oh, I hear ya. There's every logical reason in the world that EFI is better/more efficient. I like carbs for the same reason I like driving a stick... I just do. I can see/feel jets, put a carb on a bench and see why it's doing what it's doing, or just replace it for relatively cheap. VS some little silicon board moving magic pixies around.

I don't like high pressure fittings/hoses on the KTM either, those failed multiple times until my buddy re-did them himself. Not necessary on a carb'd bike.

I'll take less performance in the future to have a mechanical system I can see and replace easily. Leave the bleeding edge to the racers and the young guys.

 

I should've just left the bike bone stock. This is my last EFI thumper, but not giving up on it... yet.

 

also: why are we buying bikes that get worse/are more restricted every year? You shouldn't have to spend money/time uncorking a brand new bike.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Guest

[Spud786]

19 minutes ago, kayakingguy said:

Oh, I hear ya. There's every logical reason in the world that EFI is better/more efficient. I like carbs for the same reason I like driving a stick... I just do. I can

 

also: why are we buying bikes that get worse/are more restricted every year? You shouldn't have to spend money/time uncorking a brand new bike.

I drive a stick myself, automatics put me to sleep.

My 2015 is 8 years old,  i maintain it and upgrade the oem deficiencies over time, motor wise new bikes have nothing to offer, plus its paid for. A 2020 high comp piston  i thought about, but I dont really need it , and I run very tall gearing, more than ample power.

I really think the 2020 got the high comp piston, to maintain power out from restriction.  Stock off the floor, a 2023 still doesnt have the power out put, of a stock 2015 off the floor

Edited August 6, 2022 by Spud786

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Spud786 said:

I drive a stick myself, automatics put me to sleep.

My 2015 is 8 years old,  i maintain it and upgrade the oem deficiencies over time, motor wise new bikes have nothing to offer, plus its paid for. A 2020 high comp piston  i thought about, but I dont really need it , and I run very tall gearing, more than ample power.

I really think the 2020 got the high comp piston, to maintain power out from restriction.  Stock off the floor, a 2023 still doesnt have the power out put, of a stock 2015 off the floor

we should stop giving these guys our money for new bikes until they get the message... (that'll be the day).

 

So what would you do in my shoes? Keep tweaking the PC-V, buy a VOrtex from MT (If they really are in stock) or just throw in the towel and return the bike to stock?

Edited August 6, 2022 by Guest

[Spud786]

1 hour ago, kayakingguy said:

we should stop giving these guys our money for new bikes until they get the message... (that'll be the day).

 

So what would you do in my shoes? Keep tweaking the PC-V, buy a VOrtex from MT (If they really are in stock) or just throw in the towel and return the bike to stock?

Well, I definitely wasnt buying TPI,  TBI though, I think is a Much better design that offers a much safer level of reliability and performance. If I ever begun riding MX tracks again, Id luv one of those new TBI  300's .

 

Motor function is very important and you shouldnt be seeing anything  that makes you want a carburetor.   I dont know enough of the PC5, to know how easy it is to pinpoint fueling within the existing map, but thats what seems to be needed, not a blanket amount of fuel but pin pointing it (any dynojet facilities in your area?).   Even if you got the PC 5 fueling correct for the over all map, even Taco Moto rated the pc5 the exact same as fuel tuner on tiny throttle pop stalls, cause they all still work off the stock ecu map. He called their rating C grade,  verses Aftermarket ecu's as A grade.

Once you get accustomed to A grade, C grade dont cut it       , which also might be some of your comparison with a carb verses efi with your experience thus far.

 

The question is why is Taco's map so far off?       that stock to you is Better,  thats terrible its that bad.     Do pc 5's vary like the Green Gets do from box to box , which seems to be a common theme, with the mapping?

THere's a few GET ecu owners , that ended up On Vortex, via some of the stuff you are experiencing on the PC5.

This latest Taco vid I watched, he was acknowledging how much more troublesome a Get ecu or Aim can be from bike to Bike over a Vortex ecu, does the PC5 also fall into the Flakey catagory?

 

This is a Honda (but doesnt matter), but id recommend viewing whole vid for context, (but that aim set up kinda sux) , but goes on to talk about Get and Vortex,  (10:56 )for key point on tps varables, which ecu handles best, which is the Vortex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[randysoo]

14 hours ago, Spud786 said:

Okay, yeah blias is wanting $1500?  why

crazy. I paid less than $700 for my ecu and $95 for the euro airboot. I think a lot of gouging is going on and blaming it on supply chain issues

[Guest]

4 hours ago, randysoo said:

crazy. I paid less than $700 for my ecu and $95 for the euro airboot. I think a lot of gouging is going on and blaming it on supply chain issues

Who knows. I don't know Blais, maybe they do something amazing to the Vortex to make it worth twice as much as a regular Vortex; (Put a map on it that gives you a blowj@b and a steak dinner?) LOL...

[SteveThe Snakes]

Where’s the misinformation. It’s $999. at Blais and $759. at Slavens. ??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️

[Spud786]

2 hours ago, SteveThe Snakes said:

Where’s the misinformation. It’s $999. at Blais and $759. at Slavens. ??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️

see if this pulls up

 

https://www.blaisracingservices.com/closed-course-competition-ultimate-conversion-kit-for-2017-ktm-350/450/500-exc-2017-husqvarna-fe-350/450/501-models.html

 

now that I look at it closer, there's extra stuff added as a package totaling the $1500.

Nope $1500 for vortex by itself

I still say MT racing, that way anything they have will be the latest Firmware

Edited August 7, 2022 by Spud786

[SteveThe Snakes]

10 hours ago, Spud786 said:

see if this pulls up

 

https://www.blaisracingservices.com/closed-course-competition-ultimate-conversion-kit-for-2017-ktm-350/450/500-exc-2017-husqvarna-fe-350/450/501-models.html

 

now that I look at it closer, there's extra stuff added as a package totaling the $1500.

Nope $1500 for vortex by itself

I still say MT racing, that way anything they have will be the latest Firmware

It’s $999. for the Vortex only and he would likely match others pricing. 

https://www.blaisracingservices.com/vortex-racing-10-map-ecu-for-2020-ktm-500-exc-f.html

The link you posted includes a FMF muffler and smog block off kit. Which depending on muffler might be a good deal. 

[Spud786]

55 minutes ago, SteveThe Snakes said:

It’s $999. for the Vortex only and he would likely match others pricing. 

https://www.blaisracingservices.com/vortex-racing-10-map-ecu-for-2020-ktm-500-exc-f.html

The link you posted includes a FMF muffler and smog block off kit. Which depending on muffler might be a good deal. 

Okay , I was able to find another link which lead to the $999,  still I wouldnt order from them for 2 reasons, the jacked up price, and the fact they relinquish any and all warranty responsibility and send you to MT racing,  why not just go direct?

plus I paid no tax from California with MT, a definite bonus.

[SteveThe Snakes]

1 hour ago, Spud786 said:

Okay , I was able to find another link which lead to the $999,  still I wouldnt order from them for 2 reasons, the jacked up price, and the fact they relinquish any and all warranty responsibility and send you to MT racing,  why not just go direct?

plus I paid no tax from California with MT, a definite bonus.

Yeah MT racing is nearby to me. So who knows when those ‘24’s start coming around. ?

[Guest]

Where does your idle sit on your bikes? I'm trying to use that as my benchmark for setting up this Trailtech. It's saying my idle is around 1800... Changed the tach setting. Sounds right, but never had a tach on this bike, so not sure what the normal idle range is.

[Guest]

On 8/6/2022 at 3:29 AM, Spud786 said:

We

 

The question is why is Taco's map so far off?       that stock to you is Better,  thats terrible its that bad.     Do pc 5's vary like the Green Gets do from box to box , which seems to be a common theme, with the mapping?

THere's a few GET ecu owners , that ended up On Vortex, via some of the stuff you are experiencing on the PC5.

This latest Taco vid I watched, he was acknowledging how much more troublesome a Get ecu or Aim can be from bike to Bike over a Vortex ecu, does the PC5 also fall into the Flakey catagory?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The bike runs better with the PC-V and Taco's setup, just not great. I think there's some other stuff going on, not sure. I've never looked at the TPS etc... (another reason this is my last EFI bike, more gee-gaws than I want). So I wouldn't blame Taco, I think he delivered on the PC-V. Just other things maybe.

 

There's no local performance shops for racers etc... that I know of. Only corporate dealerships with kids working there, so I wouldn't even have anyone to take it to to tell me stupid sh@t I've done and tweak it. I'm sure an experienced racing mechanic could look in 5 minutes and tell me how I screwed it up and fix it.

[Spud786]

7 minutes ago, kayakingguy said:

Where does your idle sit on your bikes? I'm trying to use that as my benchmark for setting up this Trailtech. It's saying my idle is around 1800... Changed the tach setting. Sounds right, but never had a tach on this bike, so not sure what the normal idle range is.

 1800/1900 is spec

[Spud786]

11 minutes ago, kayakingguy said:

The bike runs better with the PC-V and Taco's setup, just not great. I think there's some other stuff going on, not sure. I've never looked at the TPS etc... (another reason this is my last EFI bike, more gee-gaws than I want). So I wouldn't blame Taco, I think he delivered on the PC-V. Just other things maybe.

 

There's no local performance shops for racers etc... that I know of. Only corporate dealerships with kids working there, so I wouldn't even have anyone to take it to to tell me stupid sh@t I've done and tweak it. I'm sure an experienced racing mechanic could look in 5 minutes and tell me how I screwed it up and fix it.

What do you think that you screwed up?   the pc 5 kit is plug and play, other than loading the map(if not already loaded), which you have an alternate, supposedly better map. which seems to have some lean surge areas,  what part of the throttle are you in when this happens?

How does the bike pull at wide open throttle, any hesitation or surge?

 

[Spud786]

1 hour ago, Spud786 said:

What do you think that you screwed up?   the pc 5 kit is plug and play, other than loading the map(if not already loaded), which you have an alternate, supposedly better map. which seems to have some lean surge areas,  what part of the throttle are you in when this happens?

How does the bike pull at wide open throttle, any hesitation or surge?

 

One thing I forgot in 2017, ktm changed to mapping by Gear, this complicates things with set up, you might have been better off the Dynojet map for your config.

If you change to a Vortex, not sure if mapping by gear gets ignored , it probably does.

But I dont have mapping by gear on my 2015 , and Have zero need for it , my Vortex function is excellent, although I do have the base vortex slightly tuned .   But the stock ECU on a 2017 is still trying to map by gear, which can screw with the pc 5 set up, or complicates it more, How it actually is set up.

[Spud786]

dynojet sites in florida  , see if this pulls up

 

https://www.dynojet.com/dyno-tunings-center/automotive-dyno-center

[Spud786]

I saw the pc 5   was discontinued   , but I was looking for available maps, and I guess you get the base map and have to make any changes through a computer. This makes any kind of easy field testing very difficult for quick changes to fine tune.

a jd tuner atleast would offer that, for less money .

Curious , do you intend to contact  MT racing tomorrow for Stock level on Vortex, 9am pacific time,   or are you done with this bike?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Spud786 said:

What do you think that you screwed up?   the pc 5 kit is plug and play, other than loading the map(if not already loaded), which you have an alternate, supposedly better map. which seems to have some lean surge areas,  what part of the throttle are you in when this happens?

How does the bike pull at wide open throttle, any hesitation or surge?

 

I feel inconsistent surge and lag throughout the RPM range... it's inconsistently inconsistent. It just doesn't feel right.  Never had that feel with any other bike I've owned. It's rideable, just feels off... and intermittent high idle that I can't associate with anything in particular... too many pixies on silicon boards having fun at my expense.