Your Thoughts on Sandbagging

[ADivotMaker]

I've only been racing MX for about 2 months now, and been riding for about 4, but one thing I've noticed is how bad the sandbagging is in the beginner classes. Just for kicks, I timed the top 3 finishers in the beginner class at my local track on raceday, and they all were faster than the intermediate winner that same day. So, my questions are do you routinely see sandbagging at your tracks on raceday? And why do people sandbag? Do they really need to feel that good about themselves to be able to say they beat everyone in the beginner class? Just a pet peeve I guess...

[Kritter]

I notice people sand bag the novice class, but hardly ever the beginner class. The beginner class pays hardly any points and who wants to have a bunch of trophies thaty say "beginner"

In the novice class, especially when companies put up contingency and stuff is up for grabs people will sand bag to get paid...

Also in the beginner class a lot of really good riders have never raced and figure that is where they should start...once they see that they are faster they can move up or go the appropriate route of asking to get bumped up.

When I was a beginner I would catch some of the novice racers(15 mintue head start) and the lady intermediates (30 min head start) and some of the super senior experts(45 minute head start) and I knew my time as a beginner wouldnt last long...I was kicked out after 3 races.

I know that I am chuggin away trying to move up...once I become an expert...I dont care if I win a trophy...I just want to be proud that I was good enough and persevered to make it to the expert class in one of the toughest districts in the US. I would rather be an expert with no trophies then a beginner with lots of trophies...and then there are the beginners who cant win trophy...which all I can say is...I hope you are having fun, cuz if you arent you might want to try a diff sport, since after all it is about having fun.

[John_Lorenz]

I agree with Kritter

When I was road racing they would stick the new guys in what they called the turkey class. You paid good money to be escorted arounf the track for 3 laps and that was it. You had to do this for at Min 3 races, until they allowed you up.

Two pros in the front two pros in the back and they would take you on a pace.

This sucked, my first time out was with a friend Lenord Acosta, we both had twin RD (Well Mine was a R5) first lap we just looked at each other and pegged it, three laps later the pros finally caught up to us ? I dont think they were pro's

We got black flagged every lap but we did get a promotion that day to the Novice Cafe' class he blew up and my pipe fell off.

Back to Sandbaggers, we had plenty of baggers in the Novice class running disguised GP bikes as Cafe' class bikes it was only obvious, but the AFM did nothign about it. I dont know what they do now but it really makes it hard to advance.

Same in Dirt Track allot of fast guys would drp down but it is harder to sandbag in Dirt Track IMO

[baddaytogo]

When it comes to MX, and really any type of racing I guess, sandbagging is always an issue. As a track owner, here are a couple of the rules I use... 1) if you win the D/Beginner class twice, you move up to C/Novice, 2) you only get one year to run the D/Beginner class regardless of results, next season you move up to C/Novice, 3) you win a C/Novice series, you move up to B/Amatuer, 4) you get 2 years to run C/Novice regardless of results, then you move up to B.

Now, for my racers trying to qualify for the big amatuer events (LLs, Mini O's, etc), I don't bump them up from C or B until after they do that years national events due to AMA rules which won't allow them to drop back down. You basically have to play it by ear and they're will always be exceptions, cheaters, sandbaggers, and whinners. Where is the fun in winning the C class by 30 seconds? You don't get faster running with slower riders. I'd rather have a 3rd place in the B class than win the C.

[125shifter]

Funny post... I know of a fella on here that IMO sandbagged a recent race and swore that he hadn't - you know who you are. IMO if that's how you gotta get first place - fine, but it doesn't say much for your character or backbone.

Hack on me for being slow all you want, but being advanced and beating int/experts even though you're in a beginner class still yields you beginner trophys. ?

If you're that badass (like you talk) step up and play with the big boys. Otherwise shut your piehole.

BTW DivotMaker, do what I do with these clowns; let them motivate you. The learning curve if you will, in MX, mandates that the better you get, the more slowly you catch people better than you. In other words, you can catch them &%$#@! sandbaggers quicker than they can catch the people they ought to be racing with.

[ADivotMaker]

All valid points. But mainly, I agree that it's all about having fun. I just joined a group of 30+ riders (Over the Hill Gang, here in California), and they are very active in monitoring the classes and will not hesitate to bump a rider if they feel he is sandbagging. I also agree that you're not going to get any faster running with slower riders, which is why I love MX so much...

[125shifter]

I also agree that you're not going to get any faster running with slower riders, which is why I love MX so much...

Yeah... I don't race (officially) but there's always someone willing to mix it up with me @ the track - and that's a blast.

[Aaron]

Sandbaggers are tea baggers ?

[flogger]

I think baddaytogo's method is a pretty good way to avoid these types of probs. Win a couple of times in the beginner and up you go. The only problem is all the tracks in a series need to have the same policies.

Flog

[BigDesto]

It depends on which club your racing with!! Some really watch the riders and if they appear to be too fast for the class they get bumped up!!Talk to your club steward!!

[jwriott]

Hell, look at Matt Mladin, he's still sandbagging so I don't really think it's limited to the lower levels of competition.

[Dan_Lorenze]

I remember at a D37 GP I signed up for the Open Novice class thinking I was sandbagging, but I wanted to get home in time for the Superbowl and the slower class was earlier in the day and I'm not going for points.. Man, I got smoked!! It looked like a pro class... Suzuki pays pretty decent contingencies for the series and there were some guys on Suzukis that would've given an expert a run for their money.. Kritter, True... D37 is a fast,fast district...

[Kritter]

"Suzuki pays pretty decent contingencies for the series and their were some guys on Suzukis that would've given an expert a run for their money.. Kritter, True... D37 is a fast,fast district..."

one of the guys I know races an RM250 in Novice for the contingency...he usually laps guys in the novice class on a 4 mile loop in 45 minutes...thats sand bagging. Karma caught up with him though when he went to redeem his RM bucks and being that he got his bike from Canada it doesnt qualify for RM bucks...he has to buy a US bike or watch his winnings expire!

The d37 GPs are cool since if you hold a desert license you are only racing the desert guys...so you can get 5th but if you are the 1st dez racer in your class...you still get 1st place points..just no trophy.

[PumpkinHumper]

I agree. Sandbaggers suck. I raced 250 c class one year. At the begining of the season there were like 30-35 guys at the gate. I would finish mid pack. Fine with me. At the end of the season there were maybe 20 guys racing (the serious ones) all of a sudden I was finishing last. I watch these guys and I swear that the top 5 guys needed to be in B class. Pissed me off. But what do ya do. The only diferant between the top C class racers and the B class racers is that the B class is allowed to do the tripple. There is no diferance between there speeds at all.

If ya just started racing C class is the place to be. If you have been racing for 10 years ya dont belong in C class. Its that simple.

[Kritter]

Well if you were mid pack in 30-35 racers that would be 15-20 finishing...so at the end of the season...all the guys finishing behind you said to themselves..."this isnt for us" and gave up. So now you are finishing 15-20 but instead of mid pack you are pickin up the rear.

As for racers racing 10 years not being in C class...I disagree with that. I know plenty of guys who are happy being out in C class for 10+ years...they dont trophy but they are having a blast...and thats what it is all about.

In D37 my Steward gives transfers by the book as far as divisions go (mini, 125, 250, open, etc..) as well as the top 10% of each line OA(beg, nov, int, exp). So say you get 5th overall but 4th in division since you are in a fast division (open and 4 stroke are very fast divisions)...by the book you wouldnt get a transfer but since the steward knows you gotta be fast to get a 5th overall out of 120 guys...you get a transfer anyways. 3 transfers bump you out of beginner, 5 or 7(cant remember) get you out of novice, and 7 or 10 get you out of Intermeidate into the expert class...

With the scorign being done that way...if you are fast you are getting bumped.

[DethWshBkr]

What do you do in my case?

Harescramble, carded as B, just shy by a race of moving up to A class, but never race MX.

I'd like to do some MX this year. I haven't raced AT ALL in the last two years and a few months now, so I'm thinking I should just run a C class MX to see how I do. If I did a hare scramble, I'd HAVE to run B class, as that's what I was carded as, up until next year, then I can go to C again (not that I'd want to, but who knows, maybe to get my mojo back or something?! ? I can't see wanting to go back to C, my skills haven't dropped THAT bad! )

If I won the moto, I'd bump up to B class that day - screw the points and overall - I wouldn't want to discourage anyone else - nor would I want to be considered a sandbagger myself!

[Moto-XXX]

It's because of sandbagging that I'm trying to go from Novice to Intermediate, the bagging in Novice is insane. If I'm still racing Novice by the end of August i'm gonna switch to the 125 class.

[DethWshBkr]

Unless you ARE a true novice racer, there is no glory in a C class trophy. Hense the reason I'd bump myself up the same day...

If you are a novice racer, that trophy holds just as much glory as an A class trophy! ?

[james_b]

And why do people sandbag?

-because coming in first makes them feel good about themselves. I would rather finish dead last in a National than first in any local race any day. People that sandbag do nothing for their own skills. If you should ride "a" class and you race "c" class you should just stay home............. ?

[Lightnin45]

(Some) people have to win to feel good I guess. I have a good example. I used to shoot idpa type matches almost every weekend, there would be new guys show up that hadn't ever shot a match. Suprisingly enough they would not get a trophy and never show up again. I just like to have fun whatever I am doing, trophy or not, but I may be in a small group of people. ?