Trade In, Or Upgrade?

[BigJim77]

The CRF250L has been great around town, but it lacks power to ride safety on the freeway, and is extremely under damped off road. Is it better to upgrade everything, or get a new bike?

Fully stock I can get the bike up to 81 mph over flat terrain, but with slight grade hills it is difficult to maintain the 70 mph speed limit. Accelerating out of danger is impossible at 65 mph. Maybe the 305 big bore would help a little. But since drag is a function of velocity squared, it takes 4 times more power to go 2 times faster on a flat surface. Assuming the increased big bore power is 305/250 = 1.22, the increased max velocity would only be SQRT(1.22) * 81 mph = 89 mph. The WR250R supposedly does 93 mph stock.

And it's a challenge riding rocky forest roads and moderate single track in the Cascade Mountain region. The bike easily bottoms out and I'm only 160 lbs. The loss of stability and traction seems to cause poor steering control. Riding at Enduro speeds would be painful. Would the Racetech rear shock and fork upgrade make the CRF250L ride more like a KTM, or at least as good as the WR250L?

As shown above a 305 big bore is not likely to put this bike on par with even the WR250R. And I don't know what else could make it a reliable commuter on the freeway.

Has anyone riden a 4 stroke KTM or Husky 350 or 500 on the freeway? Can those engines survive 50 minute sustained power? And would they still need such frequent maintenance intervals for mild off road and interstate cruising?

How many miles could the CRF250L go before rebuilding? How many miles can a KTM go?

Edited September 29, 2015 by lzr1945

[ohbrian]

Just my personal opinion but if you are questioning the bike it's probably better to step up to something bigger. Personally if I were tall enough to ride a KTM that's what I'd be on no matter what the maintenance schedule is like. If I had to ride this bike on the freeway I wouldn't own it because at the speed limit there's just not enough left for me and honestly I think anything with knobbies on it sucks on the highway anyway. I'm not sure what it weighs but Honda does make a CRF650L. If thats too big I'd look into the KTM EXC 350 and 500, I think they both weigh the same (but less than the CRF250) and only a couple hundred bucks difference between the two price wise. You can put expensive bandaids on it but it's still going to be a CRF250L... 

Edited September 29, 2015 by ohbrian

[jim331656]

It's not just about power.  Final drive ratio and rpm dictates top speed.  If you put 15/38 sprockets on the crf could go 95 but the stock engine cant even pull 14/40 to the redline and I doubt the big bore would be able to pull the higher gear.  Plus that gearing would be pretty useless in the woods.  You have the classic dual sport problem.  You want it to be good at two things at the opposite ends of the spectrum.   I don't know if a bike exists that is a good single tracker and a good highway cruiser.  What kind of ridding do you do most?

Edited September 29, 2015 by jim331656

[TheAristocrats]

My Thoughts:

Neither the CRF250L or WR250R were designed with long distance highway cruising in mind. Of the two I believe the CRF is a better all rounder and trip bike, while the WR is going to be the better trail bike.

However, with appropriate mods you can turn either into a mini adventure bike. But you're going to have to live within certain limits that this type of bike and these size bikes have. It's the nature of dual sports in general that they are a compromise. Some are biased more to street, some to dirt, etc. Our bikes are going to be down on power and carrying capacity right out of the gate, so you have to plan around that.

I have modded my CRF to be a weekender to week long back road wanderer/camper. Just this last weekend I cruised up 70 miles to the mountains and camped off of it. I set my GPS to avoid highways and off I go. I'm in no hurry to get there and I really enjoy just sticking to the 45 mph state roads. Very few cars, better scenery, no trucks and I can fart around and stop when I want. Perfect for this size bike.

Now on my actual ride this weekend here is how the bike was outfitted:

EJK, airbox mod, stock exhaust, Acerbis extended tank, Shinko 705 tires. (A windscreen would have been great)

For luggage I used Wolfman dry saddlebags and dry duffle on rear, a Kriega 10 on tail rack with tool kit in it. Wolfman Enduro tank bag, Wolfman tank pannier bags, and Wolfman carry all number plate bag.

Here's what I carried:

Kriega Tailbag: tool kit and spare tube. Totaled about 10 pounds.

Left side saddle bag: mountain house food packs, toiletry kit, iPad.

Right side saddle bag: my non-riding clothes. Water bladders (empty)

Left front tank pannier: shemmagh, trash bags, head lamp, magnifying glass, little bottle of deep woods off, cooking kit (Stanley 24oz, little gas stove, 1 x 200 gram fuel bottle, titanium long handle spoon)

Right front tank pannier: first aid and boo boo kit, Gerber LMF knife, folding saw.

Dry Duffel: Alta knee pads, thermarest folding sitting pad, air mattress, Nemo air pillow, Snugpak Softie Elite 3 sleeping bag, Nemo 2 person tent.

Carry All: goggles, leatherman, zip ties, sunglasses.

In each location I sub-pack the items in small dry bags tha I label so if I want the cooking kit, I just grab that bag out of the pannier.

Before I packed up, I put everything I was taking in a box, and weighed it, Then I weighed me in my full riding gear to see where I was at. I was about 20 pounds under max load limit for the bike. I ain't gonna lie, at 6'1" with all that on the bike it was a tight fit for me, but it was totally doable and not uncomfortable.

The bike handled it well but braking with the extra weight suffered. Other than that, and getting used to the altered center of gravity, I had no problems even on damp roads on the return trip. Including a 2400 foot descent down a twisty mountain road. The kind with runaway truck ramps on it.

There were sections of the trip where the speed limit was 55. I had no problems cruising along at 60-65. I spent most of the ride in fifth.

I tell you all of the above just to give you some ideas about what you can do with this bike with minimal mods and how it behaved loaded up.

When I got this bike, this was my vision for it. To get away for a weekend or up to a week doing 100-200 mile legs per day and camping off it. So far I'm really happy with it. I also use it as my around town bike for errands.

Now having said all that, I am looking at something bigger for longer trips. So a VStrom 650 is kind of catching my eye.

But hey, there are plenty of people taking their CRFs and WRs on long distance rides, like around the world, and it does ust fine. But if you look up their stories, they are living with the limits of the bike and taking the non-freeway routes for the most part.

So to wrap up my ramble, I wouldn't throw a whole ton of money into mods on this bike (unless that is your hobby and what you like, then rock on) hoping to turn it into something it's not. It's just never going to be a VStrom, or GS650 on the highway. It's never going to be a KTM 500 on the trail.

Maybe you would be better off with two bikes. A highway oriented one and a dual sport or dedicated trail bike. Depends what you plan to do most ai guess. But that's back to the compromise of dual sports. We can do everything to a degree but with certain limitations.

Edited September 29, 2015 by TheAristocrats

[properperson]

i love my 250M to bits, but its real downfall is riding any distance along the highways....

 

In the end, i bought a 500X in addition to the CRF, cos i couldn't bear to part with it....

 

so now, i use the 250m for "scratching" around and local stuff, and the 500X for more relaxed longer distance stuff....

 

kind of "win win" in my book....

 

 

 

[mrclortho]

This goes back to the same issue that just about all of us have with these bikes.  I feel confident if most of us could throw $15k at a bike and gear, we would not be on this bike (with exception to some who love and use it for its intended purpose).  I'll bet you can get 40k+ miles out of it before anything major other than maintenance items.  Consider that if you throw a big bore kit and all the goodies at this little 250, you are putting the engine and transmission's internal parts under considerable more strain than they were designed for.  I would have to believe it shortens the life by a wide margin.  Obviously the aftermarket suspension would help but is it worth all of the cost?  You would just have to really love the CRF to put that kind of money into it.  Let's face it, this bike is not off-road beast and won't be.  It just does not have the geometry and components to be harder than its capabilities.

 

The KTM DS's are a thing of beauty and there would be one in my garage if I could drop $10k, maintenance be damned.  I owned KTM's years ago, including a 300EXC, and they are absolutely amazing bikes.  Think about the 500 EXC that is 60lbs lighter and 3 or more times more powerful...    But, not something you want to ride 400 miles of tarmac a day on...unless you are very dedicated and pretty tough.  I would try.  They are basically a dirt bike with plates unless you step up to the adventure size bikes.  That being said, I would still have one in my garage if I could afford it.  Yes, there is more maintenance but I don't remember it being a big deal considering what you get to ride.  Now, if you are going to ride from Texas to Alaska, probably not the bike you would want to do it on.

 

Another issue is the 'big' vs 'small' bike thing which is why I am not on a KLR650 or larger.  Like said, it would be nice to have two bikes.  I have my eye on the new Honda CRF1000 very closely and am really wanting to see what riders think of this new platform.  It is a bit heavy but more economically priced than the bigger KTM's too.

 

If you stepped up to the WR, you probably would like it better but maybe not enough to go through all the process and expense.  I haven't ridden on off-road but on road they are not as friendly as the CRF but more exciting and a dirt bike feel.  Yes, more power and better suspension and brakes but the power difference isn't night and day.

 

In the end, the CRF is a great bike for what it was intended to be but not a lot more: a low cost, low maintenance, easy to live with, dependable, dual sport to putter around on with limited bouts of aggression.

[jim331656]

Really I wanted to love the drz400.  But at the price point they had I didn't think it was that much better of a bike.  If it had FI and a 6 speed I might have thought it to be worth the extra money.  But even after spending a grand on suspension I am still under the cost of a drz and the bike is perfect for what I use it for and maintenance is basically changing oil.  I just got the suspension done only took a quick spin but I would say its on par with a stock wr,  Actually probably better but I don't really have enough seat time to make that call yet.  KTM's are awesome in the dirt but I wouldn't want to run them much on the street at 70+ mph.  A 600+cc adv would cruise all day long at 80 but you wouldn't want to do much if any single track with it.  Kind of have to pick your poison.  I went the two bikes route.  But honestly since I got the crf I barely ride the ducati

[gnath9]

In my not so humble opinion  ..... ?

 

The term "Dual Sport" really means "Street/Trail"  in my mind

 

We can mod this bike all we want to make it suit our needs as an individual ...  ?   But, Streets are not highways and Trails are not race tracks ... 

 

Sure you can travel the globe on a 250 but, you can also walk across the entire United States too ....  

 

Those that have the Race Tech suspension know what a transformation it really does and proper gearing and tires for your particular needs would apply to most bikes anyway. A steering damper combined with the Race Tech suspension is pretty sweet but, I think I would want a damper on any other bike as well.  I dumped a ton of cash in my bike not because I had to but, because I wanted to build the perfect old mans street legal dirt bike ...   I do not know how long or dependable the 305 is nor do I care.

 

My bike rocks the trails pretty damn strong and is a hoot in town with 25 hp and 13/44's with an upgraded clutch ...  ?  The clutch is one of my best wheelie mods.

But, if I was young with no worries I would want a real "Dirt" bike. 

 

 

 

But, now that my Son is getting older and since he is young and can distance on a little bike better than me I think I will put better road tires and gearing on my CRF250L for him to ride with me while I am on my new CRF1000L ....   maybe ... I am not too sure as I also would like to trade in his CRF150F for a WR250R  on his next birthday. 

 

Bottom line is this is another one of those questions that nobody can answer for you ... 

[acox]

I rode with a couple of guys this weekend one had a WR250R and the other had a DRZ400 and they could barely keep up with me. They kept up but with my mods suspension and Scott's stabilizer my bike was way better off road. They may have been able to get me on the street but I don't care about the street. Just a way to get to some trails or dirt roads.

[BigJim77]

I think the bike would be a lot nicer with an aftermarket 7075 series aluminum frame, and machined aluminum parts to replace the castings. The steel frame, castings, and misc steel brackets are far too heavy. I could design an optimized welded aluminum frame with the proper stiffness and send the annotated CATIA 3D welded assembly with tolerances to a qualified machine shop. High speed machined aluminum parts are really cheap if milled on a 3 axis CNC, but still too much to spend for this bike. If we had an aftermarket vendor mass producing them I believe they would be affordable and popular.

The low maintenance CRF250L engine on an optimized frame a little smaller and lighter than a Husky, with quality suspension would be the best dual sport ever built.

[ohbrian]

I've often wondered what an aluminum frame would cost...

I think the bike would be a lot nicer with an aftermarket 7075 series aluminum frame, and machined aluminum parts to replace the castings. The steel frame, castings, and misc steel brackets are far too heavy. I could design an optimized welded aluminum frame with the proper stiffness and send the annotated CATIA 3D welded assembly with tolerances to a qualified machine shop. High speed machined aluminum parts are really cheap if milled on a 3 axis CNC, but still too much to spend for this bike. If we had an aftermarket vendor mass producing them I believe they would be affordable and popular.

The low maintenance CRF250L engine on an optimized frame a little smaller and lighter than a Husky, with quality suspension would be the best dual sport ever built.

[<Ian Nicoll/>]

Is the aluminium frame from the 250r the same as 250L?, if so, I'm surprised nobody has changed or am I missing something?

Would it not be just a case of welding on a few brackets?

Anybody know the difference in weight between the two?

Edited September 30, 2015 by <Ian Nicoll/>

[gnath9]

Is the aluminium frame from the 250r the same as 250L?, if so, I'm surprised nobody has changed or am I missing something?

Would it not be just a case of welding on a few brackets?

Anybody know the difference in weight between the two?

 

The CRF250R and X models have nothing in common the the CRF250L and is not even made in the same country .... just by looking at pics you can see how different they really are ....  craddle angles are not even close

Aluminum frames are made to flex while the steel is more rigid.  

 

I personally do not mind the weight of this bike ... that little extra weight is what makes this bike out perform the other dual sports in its class on the street .... 

 

It seems no matter what bike you look at and read the forums etc .... everybody wants to change and mod etc ....  ?  we are like drug addicts and can not just enjoy any motorcycle in its stock form ....   I hope this does not hold true to the Africa Twin ... and I could just be happy with a stock motorcycle ...  ?

 

 

[acox]

I looked at both frames they are simular but some of the angles are different and you would have to cut and reweld a bunch of the frame. But I think it would be possible if you had a bunch of time and money. But as a welder I don't think it would be worth the time or money for a few pounds. But that's just my opinion

[gnath9]

I have not checked into it but my guess is that the CRF250L/CBR250R engine is quite heavy compared to a CRF250R engine .... 

 

I think dropping in a CRF450X engine would be cool .... 

[dgrigorenko]

I think the bike would be a lot nicer with an aftermarket 7075 series aluminum frame, and machined aluminum parts to replace the castings. The steel frame, castings, and misc steel brackets are far too heavy. I could design an optimized welded aluminum frame with the proper stiffness and send the annotated CATIA 3D welded assembly with tolerances to a qualified machine shop. High speed machined aluminum parts are really cheap if milled on a 3 axis CNC, but still too much to spend for this bike. If we had an aftermarket vendor mass producing them I believe they would be affordable and popular.

The low maintenance CRF250L engine on an optimized frame a little smaller and lighter than a Husky, with quality suspension would be the best dual sport ever built.

Good luck with that 7075 frame.... Unless you plan on casting or machining it out if one piece. Welding is no Bueno on that alloy.

[CRD]

I wonder if someone were to do a chrome moly rear subframe what the cost would be? They could strengthen it a bit over stock and shed several pounds. The first few would be pretty expensive, but it seems like a production run of a thousand would bring the price down a bunch.

[CRD]

Also, is there weight to be saved with a replacement swingarm?

[ohbrian]

I'm the type of person that has to mod the living shit out of everything I buy. My wife is baffled by the whole thing ?

 

The CRF250R and X models have nothing in common the the CRF250L and is not even made in the same country .... just by looking at pics you can see how different they really are ....  craddle angles are not even close

Aluminum frames are made to flex while the steel is more rigid.  

 

I personally do not mind the weight of this bike ... that little extra weight is what makes this bike out perform the other dual sports in its class on the street .... 

 

It seems no matter what bike you look at and read the forums etc .... everybody wants to change and mod etc ....  ?  we are like drug addicts and can not just enjoy any motorcycle in its stock form ....   I hope this does not hold true to the Africa Twin ... and I could just be happy with a stock motorcycle ...  ?

 

 

 

 

[<Ian Nicoll/>]

I'm the type of person that has to mod the living shit out of everything I buy. My wife is baffled by the whole thing ?

LOL... Same here, I think there is a few of us here. ?