xr650r vs xr650l vs xl600r

[joeskiguy]

I am looking to find differences in these bikes. I currently own a 1984 xl600r. I just bought it a few months ago and it's my first dual sport. I like that I'm able to ride on and off road with it, but i may have been suckered on it. It's burning about a quart of oil a week, able 200 miles. We had a cold spell a few weeks ago and then I was on Christmas vacation and now it won't start. I changed the oil and filter prior to trying to start it. It had very little oil in it, probably only a quart or a little more. The kick start wasn't tool much of a hassle, one i got the hang of starting it. I've been looking at an upgrade/update bike and keeping this one to fix and have as ac spare. I'm looking at a few different options and I'm at a loss of finding much info on the differences between the early to mid 2000 xr650r and the xr650l. I know the l is electric start and air cooled vs the r being kick only and liquid cooled. I've found a couple sites that list the r as having about 60hp vs the l at about 45hp. Is there really that much difference in power from the two bikes? How much performance improvement can you get out of the l without durability and reliability? What are the differences in suspension or tire characteristics? How about power and ride of these newer bikes compared to my 84xlr? Thanks in advance.

Thanks for any info in advance.

[condershire]

I do not have nor have I ever owned an xl600r/xr650r but here is some info you might find helpful... The XR650L produces somewhere around 35 HP at the rear wheel, depending on altitude, mods, etc.

Your figure on the 650R is more or less accurate, somewhere around 55 HP. The R is water cooled and is no longer made. I've seen them used but plated ones can be hard to come by and can also present issues at the DMV depending on your locality...

I do have the L, which is of course street legal and is basically an XR600R (no flames please) with electric start and DOT running gear.

If you would like to be street legal, the L is probably the way to go. They are still being made, parts are ubiquitous and there is plenty of aftermarket support at this time. I DOUBT you will notice any significant performance difference between your current model and the L.

The L is good for up to somewhere around 45 - 50 HP (reliable) but this is going to be EXPENSIVE! You could just rebuild your 84' (~$1,000) or purchase a used L for around $3,000 - $4,000 in good working order. The service manager at one of our local Honda dealerships has the R but I never see it on the road (it is plated). I do see a few L's in my city, though...

Suspension wise the L is setup fairly well, provided you set your sag correctly. I come in at around 210 lbs and the stock springs are fine. If you do some serious off road stuff a re-spring and/or USD forks may be in order...

I think the R is an incredible machine but when you factor the fact the last year it was made was 2007 and the plating issues it becomes very hard to justify. The L is the simplest way to go. Not to go off thread, but the DR (Suzuki) and KLR (Kawasaki) are great machines currently being manufactured as well...

[Onederer]

The XL600R engine is hard to beat, but it is not just the engine, it is the induction system. The dual carb setup allows for smooth power down low and up high. You can ride the same gear slower than any other XRR/XRL without it surging. It is also has the highest HP of all the RFVC engines, stock. It can also get exceptional fuel economy, I've got a high average right at 60 MPG.

 

The XL600R is ~35-40lbs lighter than the XR650L stock for stock, as both are street legal from the factory and have DC charging systems. The XL600R has three independent electrical systems, the headlight, ignition and the charging. The headlight and charging system can fail and the bike will still run. The XR650L only has one electrical source for everything, but it is not know to fail other than the CDI, which I have been stranded with before.

 

The XL600R doesn't have the level of suspension and brakes that the XR650L has. The suspension by a large margin. It is still capable off road, but a bit slower because of the suspension and the rear drum doesn't have as good modulation, especially when wet. The lighter weight of the XL600R is a huge benifit off road though. The XL600R physically feels tiny compared to the XR650L.

 

I just rode my XR650L/XR600R hybrid a couple hundred miles Friday then got on my XL600R and rode around a little. Very different bikes. A XL600R engine in a XR650L frame would be perfect, but it would be much easier to put XR650L forks on the XL600R and upgrade the rear shock (XR650L shock won't fit). I would leave the rear drum, because it also has a cush drive. I own both, the cush drive makes a noticable difference, and along with the dual carbs, it is much smoother running.

 

As for the XR650R, it is a dirt bike, like the XR600R. The biggest problem is no DC electrical system and niether have a strong enough stock stator for a real headlight, besides, you can't used an HID or LED on either until you get a DC source. I rode the XR600R I used for my hybrid, only a little. I would have never considered using it on the street when I already had a XR650L. It was much easier to get what I wanted by swapping the XR600R engine and other parts to the XR650L than the other way around. The XR600R felt like a real dirt bike and so good, but there is no way to be as neat and clean turning a XR600R into a dual sport because the XR650L frame has a lot of extra provisions for the wire harness and other street legal bits that keep it very tidy which also keeps problems to a minimum.

 

The rear shock on the XR650L is supposed to be better than the XR600R one too. The valving is supposed to have an extra feature in the rebound or compression, not the tuning, an extra design feature. The XL600R stock shock blows by comparison and only has a rebound adjustment.

 

I like both my bikes and I have been working to get my XR650L to be exactly what I want, but when I get on the XL600R the smaller size and smoother power delivery is so nice. The balancer gear whine of the XL600R is cool too, the engines don't sound anything alike. The XL600R also doesn't have that terrible 1-2 gear gap the XR650L has, which is a total pain during the wrong situation offroad, making everything worse.

 

If I wanted a desert racer, I would consider the XR650R, but never for the street. I rode dirt bikes on the street for many years, just to get to the trails. That is fine, but I have done 1000+ mile days on the dual sports and would never consider a dirt bike for that. Any of the RFVC bikes have a real seat too, which I think has become a thing of the past and that coming from someone who rides 50+ miles of non-stop gravel or street on a bicycle.

 

I have some riding and mechanical expericence with the DR650's, they are fantastic bikes and much like the XL600R, need suspension work. You'll likely never hear of a DR overheating, they have a huge oil cooler, plated cylinder and a piston oil jet. KLR must be Japanese for TURD. They are great for a cheap highway bike and some light off road, but they just feel lifeless and limp; DOA. They may as well be a gasoline powered sofa with a super long fuel range.

 

Check out some of the details on your XL600R compared to the newer bikes. Look at the spokes, they are swaged. The engine side covers are magnesium. The gear shift lever has holes machined into it to make it lighter. The dual carbs are one of the best performing carb setups ever on a motorcycle. It has a quick removable rear wheel (so does the XR650L). Look at the weight too, I can only think the newer dual sports weigh so much because the materials have to be thicker due to being lower quality to meet cost requirements. Check out the new CRF250L, it may even weigh more than the 1980's XL600R. There are a lot of details on the XL600R's that show Honda put a lot of work into making the best they could for that time. They came out before the XR600R and even then, the engines had different bores and strokes, the XL600R was built to be a screaming dual sport, not a dirt bike and I think Honda done a fantastic job. I took mine down to the bare frame several years ago and freshened everything up but didn't have to rebuild the engine, then it got totaled in a crash and I had to replace the entire front end (except the glass headlight?), it is on the road still and I'm riding it a couple hundred miles tomorrow.

 

I've had the same XR650L for more than a decade and been to 12 states on it and have had an excellent time. The XL600R I've owned for ~7 years and had it down to nuts and bolts and also recieved some myself while riding it. They are both great machines.

[joeskiguy]

Huge thanks onederer and condershire. Great info from both. I have come to the conclusion that since I am going to keep both my existing 84 xl600r and which ever other bike I add, I really need to first decide or find out which one would be best suited to set up more road and adventure oriented and which would be better suited to set up more dirt trail off road. Anyone have opinions on the wr450?

[mooseman650L]

XR650R is a BAD A$$ Baja winning BEAST! Taller, stiffer, harder seat... if you're wanting a bike that is for 90%+ off road and street legal to get a splash of gas and hot food without getting busted, go for the R. If you want a ride that is 70-80% off road, less problems (water cooled, electrical, etc) then the L with some mods are the way to go. I had a 86' 600L and it felt like my 82 Yamaha XT250 with a little more power. Too low and what a workout for off road use.

I now have an 06 650L that has been port-n-polished, XRs only header+muffler combo, suspension turned for me (235lbs), wide foot pegs, bead lock in the rims and tires balanced(a must if you're going to do any highway), fold down mirrors (because the stock brake on the smallest branches), 4gal IMS tank, re-jetted, 14/45 sprocket, and 102mph in the dirt... It cost some extra $$ but still better than worrying about popping a radiator in the middle of no ware..

[joeskiguy]

I've also found an 88 nx650. Add says it's the dual exhaust version only sold in the states for two years. It looks a lot like the xlr. Different color, dual exhaust, more street legal paraphernalia.

[Bakemono36]

Honestly, if I felt the need for a bigger displacement dual sport, Id be hard-pressed to not buy a 650L.  Im actually eyeing buying a CRF250L in the near future.  Ive got a '12 CBR250R right now and its great but it would be nice to have something that I could ride on the street and still take to the trail every now and then.

I used to race MX at a regional level up until '08 and used to have an '06 YZ 250F and when I got back into bikes and looked at what Honda's dirt lineup was, I was actually kind of surprised that they still make the 650L.  It feels like theyve been making that bike forever.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Bakemono36

[condershire]

I've also found an 88 nx650. Add says it's the dual exhaust version only sold in the states for two years. It looks a lot like the xlr. Different color, dual exhaust, more street legal paraphernalia.

I drooled over the NX series during my teens... I would NOT get the NX if you plan on riding regularly, here is why: parts. That bike has not been in production for around 25 years. Granted, engine parts will not be a problem but everything else probably WILL.

If you do jump on the NX, at least verify that you can get stuff like body panels, relays, trim pieces, etc...

[joeskiguy]

Been a few years?

I ended up doing a full, bare frame rebuild on my xl600r. It was paused a few years due to new job, married, had kids... Life. 

This year I've got it all back together and it was smoking quite a bit. Found the left exhaust port had moist black carbon. Found out that there are supposed to be o rings under the valve guide flanges. 

Well... I removed the head, pushed out the valve guides and 1/4" and stretched the o-rings over the guide flange into the o ring grove. 

Did not seem to do much for the smoke. 

Looking for any kind of insight regarding oil burning, oil level checking, etc. 

Current circumstances:

When the bike sits for a few days, it barely smokes when I fire it up. If I shut it off and restart it warm, it'll smoke like a mo-fo, especially during revs and deceleration. 

I checked the oil level after about 10 miles total over a few days of tinkering with the jets. I believe that you are supposed to check the oil level within a few minutes of shutting off the engine. Did that, and I was about an inch on the dip stick, about 1/4-1/2"  above the "low" mark on the dip stick. 

So I added more oil, about a quart started it up, checked again, right at the "high" mark on dip stick. 

Rode it about another 10 miles over a few days, same scenario: a little smoke first time starting after a few days of sitting, then more smoke if I start it while it's warmed up. 

Checked oil again right away after shutting off engine: back to almost the low mark on dipstick. 

This time I didn't bother to add oil. 

I have a brand new XR's only exhaust on it, and noticed oily black carbon saturated grime, a bit moist on the tip of the exhaust. 

I was thinking for sure the new valve guides must not be properly fitted to the valve stems and allowing oil past the valve seals. 

I had resigned myself to pulling the engine and pulling the head off and replacing valve guides and seals. 

When I removed the muffler, I notice that on the header side there is only dry  black carbon. None of the moist looking oily carbon residue like I see at the muffler tip. 

I removed the header, only dry black carbon. No noticeable oily carbon in the header or in the exhaust ports. Before installing valve guide o rings, I had found oily residue on the right side exhaust port. Not this time though.

So then, out of curiosity, I check the oil level with the cold engine that had been off for over an hour: it's right at the "high" mark on the dip stick. 

Now I'm curious if the smoking is from the oil being over full. 

Anyone have any thoughts as to how the oil level can be higher after the engine has been cooling off for over an hour and lower when the motor is warm and just barely turned off? 

Anyone know if there may be something in the XR's Only muffler packing that would cause the inside of the exhaust tip to be moist? 

Anyone know of any other checks or troubleshooting ideas?

The thing is running like an absolute beast. Starts fairly easy when cold and starts first kick when warmed up. Easily pulls the wheel of the ground in first and second and third. 

To be noted, it is not a stock engine. 

I have installed a Web mid level hard weld cam and hard weld rockers, kibble white performance springs, titanium retainers, and kibble white  black diamond stainless valves, kibble white bronze valve guides, an oversized LA sleeve, and a wiseco 102.4mm piston (2.4mmm+). 

I had thought it had to be the new valve guides not properly fitted and was planning to pull the motor and the head and take it to another shop with new guides and seals and have them press out the old new guides and press in New new guides and rebuild the head. I already have the second set of guides and seals on hand.  I just really hate to do that, be down for another couple weeks, pay $300 for head rebuild, get it back together and find the same issue. 

When I reassembled the engine, I added the manual specified 2.6 quarts of oil. I then added more as it smoked A LOT and I noticed oil level low. But it is baffling my brain that the oil level was higher after it sat with engine off for over an hour as compared to showing low when I had just turned it off.

Shrug...

My thoughts are before I go ahead any further with the engine pull and head removal, I'm going to measure the amount of oil that comes out of the engine and  frame. I believe the manual says slightly less oil required when doing an oil change than what you add after engine reassembly. I don't remember that spec, but I'll see how the amount of what I drain from the engine ave frame compares to what the spec is for oil added at oil change. 

 

Again any feedback will be greatly appreciated

[JBaz]

A lot of the information you see about the 650R is written by people who've never had one and know little about them. They're dead reliable (some have over 70k miles on them) yet powerful and have an excellent suspension. An inexpensive rewound stator gives powerful lighting and accessory options including heated grips, etc.

They're surprisingly good in a dual sport role and offroad can hang with the best in gnarly high speed sections.

You can always add an electric start but, when properly tuned, will start on the first or second kick every time. This one's plated, has a 200w DC electrical system, HRC motor and race suspension, but is great going to the grocery store or doing Backcountry Discovery Routes.

They can be hard to find but well worth the effort IMO.

[joeskiguy]

Anyone want to go halves in an order from JE pistons? 

They said they can make a 103mm piston for xl600r. You have to order minimum of 2 and they want $300/each..

[Marc Barbosa]

On 1/19/2014 at 8:20 PM, Onederer said:

The XL600R engine is hard to beat, but it is not just the engine, it is the induction system. The dual carb setup allows for smooth power down low and up high. You can ride the same gear slower than any other XRR/XRL without it surging. It is also has the highest HP of all the RFVC engines, stock. It can also get exceptional fuel economy, I've got a high average right at 60 MPG.

 

The XL600R is ~35-40lbs lighter than the XR650L stock for stock, as both are street legal from the factory and have DC charging systems. The XL600R has three independent electrical systems, the headlight, ignition and the charging. The headlight and charging system can fail and the bike will still run. The XR650L only has one electrical source for everything, but it is not know to fail other than the CDI, which I have been stranded with before.

 

The XL600R doesn't have the level of suspension and brakes that the XR650L has. The suspension by a large margin. It is still capable off road, but a bit slower because of the suspension and the rear drum doesn't have as good modulation, especially when wet. The lighter weight of the XL600R is a huge benifit off road though. The XL600R physically feels tiny compared to the XR650L.

 

I just rode my XR650L/XR600R hybrid a couple hundred miles Friday then got on my XL600R and rode around a little. Very different bikes. A XL600R engine in a XR650L frame would be perfect, but it would be much easier to put XR650L forks on the XL600R and upgrade the rear shock (XR650L shock won't fit). I would leave the rear drum, because it also has a cush drive. I own both, the cush drive makes a noticable difference, and along with the dual carbs, it is much smoother running.

 

As for the XR650R, it is a dirt bike, like the XR600R. The biggest problem is no DC electrical system and niether have a strong enough stock stator for a real headlight, besides, you can't used an HID or LED on either until you get a DC source. I rode the XR600R I used for my hybrid, only a little. I would have never considered using it on the street when I already had a XR650L. It was much easier to get what I wanted by swapping the XR600R engine and other parts to the XR650L than the other way around. The XR600R felt like a real dirt bike and so good, but there is no way to be as neat and clean turning a XR600R into a dual sport because the XR650L frame has a lot of extra provisions for the wire harness and other street legal bits that keep it very tidy which also keeps problems to a minimum.

 

The rear shock on the XR650L is supposed to be better than the XR600R one too. The valving is supposed to have an extra feature in the rebound or compression, not the tuning, an extra design feature. The XL600R stock shock blows by comparison and only has a rebound adjustment.

 

I like both my bikes and I have been working to get my XR650L to be exactly what I want, but when I get on the XL600R the smaller size and smoother power delivery is so nice. The balancer gear whine of the XL600R is cool too, the engines don't sound anything alike. The XL600R also doesn't have that terrible 1-2 gear gap the XR650L has, which is a total pain during the wrong situation offroad, making everything worse.

 

If I wanted a desert racer, I would consider the XR650R, but never for the street. I rode dirt bikes on the street for many years, just to get to the trails. That is fine, but I have done 1000+ mile days on the dual sports and would never consider a dirt bike for that. Any of the RFVC bikes have a real seat too, which I think has become a thing of the past and that coming from someone who rides 50+ miles of non-stop gravel or street on a bicycle.

 

I have some riding and mechanical expericence with the DR650's, they are fantastic bikes and much like the XL600R, need suspension work. You'll likely never hear of a DR overheating, they have a huge oil cooler, plated cylinder and a piston oil jet. KLR must be Japanese for TURD. They are great for a cheap highway bike and some light off road, but they just feel lifeless and limp; DOA. They may as well be a gasoline powered sofa with a super long fuel range.

 

Check out some of the details on your XL600R compared to the newer bikes. Look at the spokes, they are swaged. The engine side covers are magnesium. The gear shift lever has holes machined into it to make it lighter. The dual carbs are one of the best performing carb setups ever on a motorcycle. It has a quick removable rear wheel (so does the XR650L). Look at the weight too, I can only think the newer dual sports weigh so much because the materials have to be thicker due to being lower quality to meet cost requirements. Check out the new CRF250L, it may even weigh more than the 1980's XL600R. There are a lot of details on the XL600R's that show Honda put a lot of work into making the best they could for that time. They came out before the XR600R and even then, the engines had different bores and strokes, the XL600R was built to be a screaming dual sport, not a dirt bike and I think Honda done a fantastic job. I took mine down to the bare frame several years ago and freshened everything up but didn't have to rebuild the engine, then it got totaled in a crash and I had to replace the entire front end (except the glass headlight?), it is on the road still and I'm riding it a couple hundred miles tomorrow.

 

I've had the same XR650L for more than a decade and been to 12 states on it and have had an excellent time. The XL600R I've owned for ~7 years and had it down to nuts and bolts and also recieved some myself while riding it. They are both great machines.

i bought a xr650l motor from ebay because for 1 i wanted to build my bike woth all the bells and whistles and things the 650l was lacking i would correct and because i always wanted the nx650 gear mod that my stock 650l didnt have[the 1st to second issue] i did the 2nd and 5th gear mod with a brand new set of 450r 47mm showa inverted forkes with RSW top and bottom triples to keep key location and lock still proper and the fork stops,i went with the stock excell wheels but did the conversion axel to keep the front disc and speedo with bigger rotor [kit was from emig racing but the axel was seperate and i had to punch out the stock front bearings and put in crf450 axel bearings into stock 650l wheel,i ended up going with voyager digital cluster with all kinds goodies,maps with sd card tach,elevation.way points with glonass and speedo ,oil pressure   ect....., since i powdercoat i did the wheels in carbide black powder with coke red hubs,i ran a uni filter off the carb and put DG pipe,i used a 83 xl600 frame thinking i would lower the seat height but with my weight the shock was not going to work so i used the 83 lower dog bone and made a spacer to add the stock 650l swing arm and pro link shock line up correct,that paired with 47mm showas was the best bang for the buck,this things swallows mogules and realy sits tall and rides well, dont know why honda never put these inverted on the 650l because thats what its missing,now to the tank,since i used the 83 xl frame the only aftermarket tank that would fit was a 4.7 gallon clear clark tank and it fit nicely,its been 2 1/2 years now and i have maybe 1600 miles but i spent full year doing up a frame off 97 jeep tj so i am now ready to go on the transamerican trail after i put the new stroker motor in my jeep this coming spring ,then come mid aug i can start out my journey,also i have background in machining so i made my light pearch for the 6 1/2 inch PIAA headlight i used with few ram mount points and 12volt cig socket for charging and a nice CDI unit [ignitech] and i cant forget the wiseco 10.5.1 high compression piston to pull the 5th gear mod,anodized silver bars,i nice honda logo black and white gripper seat from argentina and i was very well pleased with what i put together since alot of time and research was implemented the bike speaks for itself!