Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
rknaub

Questions on Time Sert install

13 posts in this topic

Gonna repair the lower oil filter bolt threads on my '00 426 with my time Sert on my next oil change. Is it safe to do this while the engine is still together? Will packing the flutes of the bits with grease be enough to make sure no harmful particles get into the engine? Any suggestions or tips anyone can offer on the process are appreciated. Plan on using a 12mm insert, a previous stickied thread on here by gray says a 10mm at least.

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The insert should be the same length (as near as practical) as the threads on the bolt. You can install it with the engine assembled using some precautions such as those you mentioned. Be sure the insert does not stand above the surface at the bottom of the counter bore where the original threads are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, was going to install my time sert tonight, but I got a problem.

The counterbore bit looks like it isnt going to go all the way to the threads. The bit is too large to fit inside the hole. Do I need to drill this hole out bigger? I'm worried about doing this, because I'm afraid there will not be enough room for the small o-ring, if I do make the hole big enough for the counterbore to fit. Same with the insert, the tapered portion on the insert is too large to fit inside.. Any suggestions?

I took some pictures of the situation, but cannot figure out how to upload them. :banghead:

316ambk.jpg

5ckqo.jpg

1z5u8ur.jpg

35k4g00.jpg

1675aad.jpg

Edited by rknaub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pictures have to be posted on a photo hosting site such as Photobucket.com, then you link to them from the tools in the editor.

Sounds like things have changed with the Time-Sert hardware. The counter boring tool used to fit. If it won't, I think I'd just drop back and use a Heli-Coil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would you recommend using red loctite to hold the heli coil in place? Any suggestions on retrieving the little install tab on the insert once you break it off?

Thanks gray, really appreciate your help.

Edit: picked up a helicoil kit, inserts only come in 9mm, is it possible to install two? One on top of the other? Also... I think I may be able to tie a string of some sort to the install tang, and hopefully pull it out.

Edited by rknaub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A helicoil stays in place due to the fact that it is compressed when it is installed and then "springs open" against the walls of the thread. For this reason it is recommended that thread lockers are avoided due to the fact that they only get in the way of this expansion effect. If you PM me your email I can send you a pdf which I got from one of our suppliers at my work which explains this a little better.

Using threadlockers (between the helicoll and the base material) may increase the chance of removing the helicoil with the bolt the next time you remove the bolt because the thread lock material only gets in the way of this expansion effect.

Is the timesert installation tool essentially just a bolt that can accept a tap handle? Or is there something that makes it unique?

Edited by AlanCook

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would you recommend using red loctite to hold the heli coil in place? Any suggestions on retrieving the little install tab on the insert once you break it off?

Edit: picked up a helicoil kit, inserts only come in 9mm, is it possible to install two? One on top of the other? Also... I think I may be able to tie a string of some sort to the install tang, and hopefully pull it out.

Like the man said, you don't need to lock the Heli-Coil in place. However, the safest thing to do is to remove the case cover and do it off the bike so that the tang doesn't escape.

As to the length, 9mm is adequate for good thread strength, but what you should check is whether or not the coil closes off the drain port in the filter well. If it does, fine. No worries. If not, however, the hole has to be blocked or it will cause a loss of oil pressure. Read these two threads, if you haven't:

What caused the problem

How to block the drain

Is the timesert installation tool essentially just a bolt that can accept a tap handle? Or is there something that makes it unique?

The problem he's having is with the drill/countersink that comes in the kit which spot faces the top of the drilled hole to accept the flange of the insert and provide a squared up face for the bolt to seat against. It's that the diameter of the tool is now too large to enter the bore in which the threaded hole is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beacuse I was worried about the helicoil not completely closing up the cross drilled hole, I went the time sert route. I ended up finding a dowell that fit perfect around the counterbore bit, used that dowell to center the counterbore bit perfectly in the hole where the oring goes, and drilled it. Used a 19mm insert, plenty long to cover the threads cross drilled into the filter houising, and the insert countersunk into its little hole perfectly. Got a new bolt of the same length but fully threaded from the hardware store. Also, the counterbore bit seemed like a perfect fit into the cutout where the oring sits, not too big, but just big enough for the timeser to fit. I think it worked out great. Thanks for all the advice.

Edited by rknaub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We use both Time-sert and Heli-coil in the shop here, different applications dictate which one. Time-sert is my overall favorite, but requires room to do it. I would probably opt for Heli-coil in this instance. I have found that on VW drainplug holes in aluminum pans, for instance,the Time-sert is too large on the outer flange there too, and the drainplug seal might not cover it well enough to prevent oil leaking around the insert. Heli-coil or oil pan is the cure there as well.

I have stacked Heli coil inserts on top of each other and/or cut to fit. That is one advantage to Heli-coils is the adaptability that way. I also found that if you wish you can special order different lengths through an industrial supply house. When I did headbolt holes on my 600 I wanted to order longer ones and discovered that I had to get a bag of 100 as a minimum order. Luckily though the vendor would send samples for study and they sent just enough to get me by. I did have to stack two in one hole though however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I was typing my reply as you were typing the fix.

Nevermind.

I am glad you got it fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem he's having is with the drill/countersink that comes in the kit which spot faces the top of the drilled hole to accept the flange of the insert and provide a squared up face for the bolt to seat against. It's that the diameter of the tool is now too large to enter the bore in which the threaded hole is.

I was actually asking because I am going to do a similar job and I have everything but the installation tool. Trying to figure out if it's worth buying or if I can just install it with a longer bolt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can't spot face the top of the hole, you can't install a Time-Sert. Review his fix for the problem in post 8.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you would like, I can try and take some pics when I get home. My biggest concern was counter boring the hole perfectly center, which is why I came up with the little dowell I used as a sleeve for the counter bore. It was actually a dowell that goes in the engine somewhere, i had it laying around as a spare. I just clamped it in a vise and drilled it a bit wider with a 5/16 bit, fit the counter bit perfectly.

I dont see why a regular bolt wouldn't work instead of the install tool, I sprayed the tool with wd40 before install. I have plenty of inserts at home, I could test it with a bolt and see if it expands the threads like it needs to in order to lock down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0