over gripping the bars

[yz250337]

i recently went to a motocross school this year it was ryan hughes school and i learned a crazy amount and i feel like i can ride the bike with more control then ever but on to my question i asked him about over gripping the bars he told me it was a no no becasue if the bike hits a rock or something your hands have a tendency to fall off the bars like slide straight down off the bars and this has happened to me once or twice since i become aware of the problem but i find if i dont have a over grip on the bars i can not keep my throttle elbow high no matter what i do and i have trouble getting over the front of the bike opinions

[temporarily_locked]

loosen your grip, use a slight mix of slight over grip and readjusting your fingers on the throttle.

[tye1138]

I agree with DT.

My pointer fingers never leave the levers (brake/clutch) and if you ride that way, there is no way you can over-grip the bars. Setting up your levers properly is super important to achieve this and you'll notice most professional riders ride this way.

[kx910]

I agree with DT.

My pointer fingers never leave the levers (brake/clutch) and if you ride that way, there is no way you can over-grip the bars. Setting up your levers properly is super important to achieve this and you'll notice most professional riders ride this way.

Most pros don't ride with a finger on the brake, although most of them will ride most of the track with a finger on the clutch, because if your hard on the throttle, your finger will just get in the way. That's why I've made it a habit not to ride with a finger on the front brake. I just put my finger on the brake immediately after I chop the throttle. Just sayin.

And most people don't do this, but it's easier to use the front brake with your middle finger than with your pointer finger. It gives you better throttle control and a stronger brake pull. I use my middle finger for the brake, and my middle and index fingers for the clutch.

Edited September 18, 2012 by kx910

[kx910]

And one more thing. I learned that if my elbows are really high, and I hit something sketchy, just grab on with your knees. Doing this lets me keep control of the throttle, keep control of the bike, and keep my elbows up. Just know WHEN to grab on with your knees and when not to.

[tye1138]

Most pros don't ride with a finger on the brake, although most of them will ride most of the track with a finger on the clutch, because if your hard on the throttle, your finger will just get in the way.

The technique of "covering" the brake and clutch is widely used. Proving this through pictures and video is hard because it might be taken out of context, we don't know why the rider is using the lever, etc.

This technique was taught to me by several ex-professional racers in both roadracing and motocross. Its highly used, especially on lightning switch 2 strokes.

The point of covering the brake lever is to give your hand/body a reference at where the throttle position is at any given time so you can deliver smooth throttle control. If you just grab the throttle on exit, the only reference you have to how much throttle you are giving the bike is basically from the seat of your pants or when you hit the stop. If you give your body a throttle position reference by using your pointer finger as that reference, you will be A LOT smoother with throttle application and the brake is right there when you need it. Bumps and moving around the bike, doesn't disturb the throttle input at all because you always know the reference point and you are always compensating for it. Again, the whole concept is smooth throttle.

I just put my finger on the brake immediately after I chop the throttle. Just sayin.

Chop the throttle? heh, thats the next trick you gotta learn... how to corner without choppin' the throttle. ?

And most people don't do this, but it's easier to use the front brake with your middle finger than with your pointer finger.

Thats all how your levers are setup and what levers you use. I spent hours adjusting my levers to get them just perfect and I use levers with a small indentation in the right where the pointer finger goes. So when you ride, your finger falls right in that spot and your good to go.

Looks like you've got a lot of new stuff to work on! LOL ?

[kx910]

The technique of "covering" the brake and clutch is widely used. Proving this through pictures and video is hard because it might be taken out of context, we don't know why the rider is using the lever, etc.

This technique was taught to me by several ex-professional racers in both roadracing and motocross. Its highly used, especially on lightning switch 2 strokes.

The point of covering the brake lever is to give your hand/body a reference at where the throttle position is at any given time so you can deliver smooth throttle control. If you just grab the throttle on exit, the only reference you have to how much throttle you are giving the bike is basically from the seat of your pants or when you hit the stop. If you give your body a throttle position reference by using your pointer finger as that reference, you will be A LOT smoother with throttle application and the brake is right there when you need it. Bumps and moving around the bike, doesn't disturb the throttle input at all because you always know the reference point and you are always compensating for it. Again, the whole concept is smooth throttle.

I look at pictures too dude. Most people that aren't amateur don't have a finger on the brake all the time. Although it may just be a preference, so I'm not going to argue that with you. Some people do it, some people don't. And if you have good throttle control, you don't need a finger on the brake for reference. If you aren't applying the throttle smoothly and you like to straight up pin it, simply roll the throttle on a little slower. Problem solved.

Chop the throttle? heh, thats the next trick you gotta learn... how to corner without choppin' the throttle. ?

How do you enter a corner then? Do you enter a corner, then get on the brakes while still giving it gas or something? I know you aren't supposed to completely chop it in sand, but I'm pretty much talking about when entering ruts.

Thats all how your levers are setup and what levers you use. I spent hours adjusting my levers to get them just perfect and I use levers with a small indentation in the right where the pointer finger goes. So when you ride, your finger falls right in that spot and your good to go.

Looks like you've got a lot of new stuff to work on! LOL ?

What do you mean I have a lot of new stuff to work on? Are you saying that I should change where I put my fingers on the clutch and brake?

Edited September 19, 2012 by kx910

[j368]

i recently went to a motocross school this year it was ryan hughes school and i learned a crazy amount and i feel like i can ride the bike with more control then ever but on to my question i asked him about over gripping the bars he told me it was a no no becasue if the bike hits a rock or something your hands have a tendency to fall off the bars like slide straight down off the bars and this has happened to me once or twice since i become aware of the problem but i find if i dont have a over grip on the bars i can not keep my throttle elbow high no matter what i do and i have trouble getting over the front of the bike opinions

Watch how Ryan does it. YouTube has a lot of video of him riding.

[Levi450]

Not to hijack a thread, but what is the "proper" lever setup? Is it a matter of personal preference, or is there a standard jumping off point? I'm gonna try the one finger trick this weekend and see how it works.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Levi450

[tye1138]

Not to hijack a thread, but what is the "proper" lever setup? Is it a matter of personal preference, or is there a standard jumping off point? I'm gonna try the one finger trick this weekend and see how it works.

The levers are all setup for personal preference. When I get on a bike for the first time, I usually set the lever so the little arch is right where my pointer finger is. I want to be able to be sitting on the bike and slightly over grip for me to brake because thats the natural position when your in the attack position standing/entering a corner. Then I bring the adjustment tool with me next to the track, do a few laps and tweak. Once you get it, you know where it needs to go back to for the future. It either works or it doesn't work...

Edited September 19, 2012 by tye1138

[tye1138]

I look at pictures too dude. Most people that aren't amateur don't have a finger on the brake all the time. Although it may just be a preference, so I'm not going to argue that with you. Some people do it, some people don't. And if you have good throttle control, you don't need a finger on the brake for reference. If you aren't applying the throttle smoothly and you like to straight up pin it, simply roll the throttle on a little slower. Problem solved.

Yes its a preference. Yes if I just straight up pin it, your right, you don't need this trick at all. Sometimes I don't use it because I'm just pinning it everywhere and likewise, there is no throttle control necessary. I only mentioned the trick because I use it. You said it doesn't work and I'm crazy... well, it does work and yes I'm crazy! LOL ?

How do you enter a corner then? Do you enter a corner, then get on the brakes while still giving it gas or something? I know you aren't supposed to completely chop it in sand, but I'm pretty much talking about when entering ruts.

Using my trick above, allows you to keep the throttle open going into a corner. So your on the brakes whilst your still on the gas. Not pinned or anything, but for sure nowhere near idle. Its hard to hear in my video's because there is so much wind noise and at lower RPM's my lil bike doesn't over power the wind noise. But trust me when I say this, the throttle is open going into corners. I use the same technique with ruts.

What do you mean I have a lot of new stuff to work on? Are you saying that I should change where I put my fingers on the clutch and brake?

Well, get a big bike first and then try some new techniques... stuff that you may think doesn't work, might just work perfectly on real bike. ?

[kx910]

Yes its a preference. Yes if I just straight up pin it, your right, you don't need this trick at all. Sometimes I don't use it because I'm just pinning it everywhere and likewise, there is no throttle control necessary. I only mentioned the trick because I use it. You said it doesn't work and I'm crazy... well, it does work and yes I'm crazy! LOL ?

I never said it doesn't work. I just said that you don't really need to do it.

Using my trick above, allows you to keep the throttle open going into a corner. So your on the brakes whilst your still on the gas. Not pinned or anything, but for sure nowhere near idle. Its hard to hear in my video's because there is so much wind noise and at lower RPM's my lil bike doesn't over power the wind noise. But trust me when I say this, the throttle is open going into corners. I use the same technique with ruts.

That's because the tracks your on are wide and flat. Like I said, I mostly ride tracks with harder rutted corners where I am. But even so, that doesn't make any sense. Why use the throttle which is ment to speed you up, while using the brakes which are ment to slow you down? See what I'm saying. When you do the technique that your talking about, people tend to go into corners slower. I would know because I've tried it before, and I've seen many people do it. It makes more sense to pin it till the last second, then get on the brakes, then pin it again (smoothly). I even noticed in your videos (as many other people have pointed out) that you get off the gas really early. You get off the gas early because you are rendering your brakes less effective by keeping the throttle on, so you have to slow down earlier.

And one more thing. You wouldn't want to have your finger on the front brake all the time because it makes it harder for you to completely close the throttle. I used to ride like that, and I found out just how much it sucks to come up to a bunch of big braking bumps (say that 5 times fast) when you can't fully shut off the throttle. It makes for bad throttle control. I obviously have better throttle control now, but that still doesn't take away from the fact that I don't want to increase the chances of me losing control of my bike.

Well, get a big bike first and then try some new techniques... stuff that you may think doesn't work, might just work perfectly on real bike. ?

That didn't quite anser my question. Also, I do have a real, "full sized" bike. It's a 125 as you know. But what you are saying doesn't make much sense because you ride a ktm125 (or 150, IDK) yourself. Unless your saying that I should get a real bike because my bike is a weaker 2001 kx125 vs your more powerful 2011 ktm125. But that wouldn't make my bike fake now would it...

Edited September 19, 2012 by kx910

[tye1138]

I even noticed in your videos (as many other people have pointed out) that you get off the gas really early. You get off the gas early because you are rendering your brakes less effective by keeping the throttle on, so you have to slow down earlier.

The videos are rough examples, you can't tell how quick I'm going because everything is so distorted through the wide angle lens of the camera. I feel the same way when I watch other people's video's and I've learned that its just par for the course. Keeping the throttle open, doesn't mean you are moving forward at any quicker rate. It just means the throttle plate isn't completely closed.

That didn't quite anser my question. Also, I do have a real, "full sized" bike. It's a 125 as you know. But what you are saying doesn't make much sense because you ride a ktm125 yourself. Unless your saying that I should get a real bike because my bike is a weaker 2001 kx125 vs your more powerful 2011 ktm125. But that wouldn't make my bike fake now would it...

I'm sorry, I thought you rode a KX100...

[kx910]

The videos are rough examples, you can't tell how quick I'm going because everything is so distorted through the wide angle lens of the camera. I feel the same way when I watch other people's video's and I've learned that its just par for the course. Keeping the throttle open, doesn't mean you are moving forward at any quicker rate. It just means the throttle plate isn't completely closed.

I understand that, and I never said that your a slow rider or anything, but you should go watch a video of someone on a 125 holding it WIDE OPEN. Like justin barcia or James stewart. That's what I'm talking about. I'm obviously nowhere near their level, but It's a good habit to keep the throttle on and try to go into the corner a little faster until you can literally pin it in the highest gear possible. It's just a progressive thing to carry as much speed as you can into the corner before braking as possible. Work your way up.

I'm sorry, I thought you rode a KX100...

Seriously? really? or is this just a mean joke.. I'm serious. I can't tell if your serious or if your joking.

Edited September 19, 2012 by kx910

[tye1138]

I understand that, and I never said that your a slow rider or anything, but you should go watch a video of someone on a 125 holding it WIDE OPEN. Like justin barcia or James stewart. That's what I'm talking about. I'm obviously nowhere near their level, but It's a good habit to keep the throttle on and try to go into the corner a little faster until you can literally pin it in the highest gear possible. It's just a progressive thing. Work your way up.

Lots of variables... Its hard to compare the best racers in the world, who were teenagers when they rode 125's, to a 30 something who's about to graduate into his third year of riding. LOL ?

But yes, when I ride big wide open tracks with lots of room to just pin it, for sure I can just pin it and rail it. We only have two tracks like that here, I should go to'em and shoot some video! ?

Seriously? really? or is this just a mean joke.. I'm serious. I can't tell if your serious or if your joking.

Sorry, my bad. I talk with a lot of people and there is another kid who is on here a lot with a KX100 who is from central california like you. Sorry bro, don't hit me too hard! LOL

That 01 KX125 is a good lil bike, I have one in pieces in my garage if you want any spare parts! LOL ?

[kx910]

That 01 KX125 is a good lil bike, I have one in pieces in my garage if you want any spare parts! LOL ?

Hehe, I know, you told me. And speaking of parts, the only part I would really need (that I'm sure you want to keep) is a gas tank! I can't even screw in my radiator shrouds because it's messed up. I have to use zip-ties to hold my fenders on. Luckily my bike is black, so no one really notices the black zip-ties.

[tye1138]

Hehe, I know, you told me. And speaking of parts, the only part I would really need (that I'm sure you want to keep) is a gas tank! I can't even screw in my radiator shrouds because it's messed up. I have to use zip-ties to hold my fenders on. Luckily my bike is black, so no one really notices the black zip-ties.

I love Kawsaki... my screw holes are all gone. Every one of them has the same problem. The screw threads just tear out and thats the end of that.

KTM doesn't have mounts on the side like that, you won't ever have that issue. Again, design choices... as we were talking about earlier. ?

My buddies Kawasaki 450, same issue. My other friends Honda CRF250, same problem. Its an epidemic! If you crash a lot, those screw holes get torn up over time.

Edited September 19, 2012 by tye1138

[kx910]

I love Kawsaki... my screw holes are all gone. Every one of them has the same problem. The screw threads just tear out and thats the end of that.

KTM doesn't have mounts on the side like that, you won't ever have that issue. Again, design choices... as we were talking about earlier. ?

My buddies Kawasaki 450, same issue. My other friends Honda CRF250, same problem. Its an epidemic! If you crash a lot, those screw holes get torn up over time.

Hehe, It sucks, but it was like that when I bought it. The screws were super glued in the holes so I didn't realize how they were until I crashed a few times. Speaking of design choices, what do you have to do with your KTM to take out the piston? Because I could swear that you don't have to take so many things off the bike just to access the piston on some bike models. On mine (as I assume you know already), you have to take off the seat, shrouds, gas tank, pipes, and radiators just to get to the piston. That seems like a bit much to me. What If I blew my top end during a race? That takes forever.

It seems like happy hour right now. Make a post, get an answer.

Edited September 19, 2012 by kx910

[tye1138]

Hehe, It sucks, but it was like that when I bought it. The screws were super glued in the holes so I didn't realize how they were until I crashed a few times. Speaking of design choices, what do you have to do with your KTM to take out the piston? Because I could swear that you don't have to take so many things off the bike just to access the piston on some bike models. On mine (as I assume you know already), you have to take off the seat, shrouds, gas tank, pipes, and radiators just to get to the piston. That seems like a bit much to me. What If I blew my top end during a race? That takes forever.

Yea, its pretty much the same process on any bike. Radiators don't need to come off and getting the cylinder off is only 4 bolts which are accessible from the outside with no problem. No hidden compartments, nothing crazy. Pop the seat, pop the tank (shrouds stay attached) pull the resonator, pop the lower coolant line off to drain the fluid, pop the ignition boot, take out the 4 bolts that hold the cylinder on and its in your hand before you can even blink an eye.

I can do a top end on a KTM 125/150 in about an hour from bike running to bike running. Piece of cake. ?

The KX is a nightmare, nothing against the lil bike that could, but its a PITA to work on in every way. They just didn't design it for ease of service at all. Again, one of those engineering things. Dude, if you buy a 4 stroke, they're 10x more difficult to work on. So much more difficult, its astounding. Just changing a spark plug turns into a battle on some bikes because there is a cross brace on the frame which prevents direct access to the hole! 2 strokes for the win! ?

It seems like happy hour right now. Make a post, get an answer.

There should be a permanent section on TT called "Ask Tye"! LOL

[kx910]

Yea, its pretty much the same process on any bike. Radiators don't need to come off and getting the cylinder off is only 4 bolts which are accessible from the outside with no problem. No hidden compartments, nothing crazy. Pop the seat, pop the tank (shrouds stay attached) pull the resonator, pop the lower coolant line off to drain the fluid, pop the ignition boot, take out the 4 bolts that hold the cylinder on and its in your hand before you can even blink an eye.

I can do a top end on a KTM 125/150 in about an hour from bike running to bike running. Piece of cake. ?

The KX is a nightmare, nothing against the lil bike that could, but its a PITA to work on in every way. They just didn't design it for ease of service at all. Again, one of those engineering things. Dude, if you buy a 4 stroke, they're 10x more difficult to work on. So much more difficult, its astounding. Just changing a spark plug turns into a battle on some bikes because there is a cross brace on the frame which prevents direct access to the hole! 2 strokes for the win! ?

Yeah, this bike does seem a little overly complicated. Some things they could have made a lot easier to take apart, but this bike is from 2001, and it's 2012 now. I'm glad that your ktm has these little problems solved. And about 4 strokes being more difficult to work on, that really sucks for me, because if I get a kx250f, I'm going to have to work on it myself. I hope the 2013 isn't as bad as the ones you've seen.

There should be a permanent section on TT called "Ask Tye"! LOL

Hehe fur shure!

Edited September 19, 2012 by kx910