W85W58

2012 WR450 Starting woes

508 posts in this topic

See page two of this thread.   Man since I got my valves adjusted and installed the Shorai battery, this bike starts hot and in gear all day long. It starts better now than it did when it was new. I freaken love this bike.

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See page two of this thread.   Man since I got my valves adjusted and installed the Shorai battery, this bike starts hot and in gear all day long. It starts better now than it did when it was new. I freaken love this bike.

That's good news! My Shorai battery just showed up, and I'm getting the valves checked as well. My bike starts a lot better now than when new, but still sometimes finicky when hot, and doesn't like to start in gear. Hoping the battery/valves cures that.

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See page two of this thread.   Man since I got my valves adjusted and installed the Shorai battery, this bike starts hot and in gear all day long. It starts better now than it did when it was new. I freaken love this bike.

 

Which post on page 2?  My bike has a Shorai battery and the valves are in spec.

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Just received this:

 

Dear Mike,

The Idle CO value can be adjusted on a WR450F (efi) by a Yamaha dealer using the FI Diagnostic tool.
The CO volume can not be adjusted with the power tuner.
 

Regards,
Duilio Pianca
Customer Relations Department
Yamaha Motor Australia

 

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Update on my bike.

I talked to the service manager about adjusting the idle circuit with the FI management tool. I also gave him the part number of the tool as printed in the owner's manual on page 9-26 (Yamaha diagnostic tool 90890-03125.)

He didn't have the tool onhand, so he tried to get it. Apparently, the supplier (K&L supply) said they won't be able to get any to dealers (wholesale supplier only) until December at the earliest. According to th service manager, the company had a software glitch in a previous version.

So... I need a part number other than the one listed, that allows adjustment of the idle circuit. Do any of you have one?????

I also mentioned the possibility of using an "older" FI management tool. He had one made for the Raptor and tried it. It would give diagnostic information, but there wasn't an ability for any adjustment.

Hope someone out there can help.

Thanks,

Jon

 

The standard Yamaha FI Diagnostic Tool is required to make the idle circuit adjustment, all the dealers will have this tool.  The issue is that the WRs have a different plug to connect to the ECU (because of the GYTR tuner?) and there is an adaptor lead required.  My dealer does not have one of these adapter leads and they are $150.  I have ordered a generic FI diagnostic tool with multiple leads - hopefully this will fit and allow me to richen up my idle circuit.  I have tried everything in this thread and my bike is still a pig to start - even kicking.

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Have you checked your idle speed with the GYTR tool ?

The other thing to check is the throttle position.

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy

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Have you checked your idle speed with the GYTR tool ?

The other thing to check is the throttle position.

Idle speed is 2200

TPS needs the Yamaha FI diagnostic tool so I will check that when I have the tool and adapter lead.

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So this last weekend I started having some starting issues. We were snaking through some pretty tight 1st and 2nd gear trails and I stalled the bike a few times due to not having ridden in quite some time (clutch modulation wasn't the best I'm capable of) and the close proiximity to my riding buddies.

 

Bike was hard to start after stalling and being quite warm...first time I've worked the bike this hard in slowish conditions. I tried all of the various suggestions in this thread and nothing really seemed to help.

 

I've got a theory that the stock Yuasa battery just can't crank the bike hard or fast enough to clear it out after a hot stall. I believe the stock battery is the same model that was used on the carbed 07-11 WRs and they worked fine in that bike as the only job they had was to crank the starter and power the ECU.  The new fuel injected bikes have a fuel pump, ECU and injectors to power and I think it may be just a bit too much for the CCA rating of the Yuasa.

 

I recently put one of the new Earth X batteries (the best LiFePo battery on the market at the moment) in my KTM Superduke and it cranks the bike over way faster than the stock Yuasa ever did and the bike fires up immediately.

 

I just bought one for the WR...should have it before this weekend but unfortunately will be heading up to Laguna Seca for the WSB race. Will not be able to install and ride the bike to test it thouroughly until the following weekend. I will post results once I've given it a good thrashing including intentionally stalling the bike.

Edited by JDLowrance

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I've got a theory that the stock Yuasa battery just can't crank the bike hard or fast enough to clear it out after a hot stall.

 

I think you're partially correct.  I installed a Shorai battery that has 220 cca (IIRC).  It does seem to start a bit better, but it didn't really take care of the issue.

 

The only thing that I've found that works, with varied success, is the suggestion by an earlier poster.  After a flame out, open to full throttle and crank for about 1 sec.  Fully close the throttle and then start the bike.

 

Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.  I really don't know why.   

 

It odd thing, at least with my bike, is that I can kick start it under pretty much any circumstance and it will start.  I doubt it would take more than 2 kicks.  In addition to that, it will start pretty easily with the button if I pull the start knob and put the bike in neutral.  Pain in the a$$, I know.  I hate sitting trying to find neutral and the start knob while my buddies are riding away... very frustrating. 

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The Earth X has 235 CCA (@ 0 degrees) so is a bit stronger than the Shora.

 

Another thing I've noticed about these two brands of battery... Buddies have installed the Shorai recommended for the Superduke in their bikes and it is no where near the battery the Earth X is that I've installed in my Superduke.

 

The Shorai doesn't turn the big V-Twin over as quickly (some mornings they do not turn the motors over at all) and they seem to be failing at an alarming rate...even the warranty replacements.

 

The new Earth-X has gotten a really good reputation in a really short time......apparently it's the best LiFePo on the market at the moment. I certainly cannot argue as it's worked great in my street bike and will now hopefully work as well in my WR.

 

Will know more in a couple of weeks.

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I took the starter gear cover off my bike today to have a look-see.  I found that the gear is rubbing on the cover and I think may be a contributing factor to the hard starting nature of these bikes when using the button.  I'm no engineer, so I don't know.

 

Sent the pics to Yamaha NA.  They can't talk to me directly, it's got to be through a dealer.  I've had an on / off year long dialog with them, so they know who I am.

 

May this be a case of the tolerances being a bit too tight????

 

b3b81160-0f7d-41ec-8bec-0c873b9ff14f_zps

 

 

IMG_0219JPG2_zps99a6137f.jpg

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Interesting...the gear is actually making contact with that cover's surface?

 

That's right.  It's actually worn a small groove on one half of the cover.

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It looks close but could it be that something got caught in between the teeth and the cover?

That's possible, I suppose.

It's hard to see in the picture, but on the side of the arrow a groove has been worked into the case. It's deep enough to catch it with your fingernail. On the opposite side, it looks unscathed. It looks as though the starter gears are somehow not aligned with the case???

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Thats what made me think something got wedged in there for part of the revolution.

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Is the "WASHER,PLATE" missing?

Yea there should be a washer on both sides. It is the same for both sides. are they there?

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MY SOLLUTION

ive owned a brand new wr450f 2012 for 3 months now and when i first got the bike it was a nightmare to start but my dealer assured me thast it would be ok after a 1000 + kms

and he was very right she start first time the odd time it takes 2-3 goes  .

only thing i can say is that when you turn the bike on  dont push the start button straight away . wait for the little electrical noise to stop then try and if still not going then wait for noise to stop and try again . even with my bike running right  if i was to go and try to start it without letting it settle then it would NEVER START .
btw  my current setup is standard as the dealer gave it to me  . she came with throttle stop removed , mappable ecu , pea shooter removed and wider one fitter  this is how we get our bikes brand new from the dealer here in new zealand

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Is the "WASHER,PLATE" missing?

 

There's a washer on both sides. 

 

I thought about getting a slightly thicker washer to fit in between the gear and case... 

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