W85W58

2012 WR450 Starting woes

506 posts in this topic

I'm reporting "hard starting when warm" issue, now.

 

I've been running with CO set to 7, and my cycle, a '13 WR450, now has about 600 miles on it.

 

It has started having this "hard starting when warm" issue recently, say the last few times out riding the cycle.  I'm not sure whetheror not to attribute the local weather (cool, 60-70's (hey, thats cool for Tucson), dry, 3-4K feet elevation) or not. Probably not...

 

I'm not sure whats changed. When new(er), it started right up 1st button push, every time. Now, not so much.

 

I need to clean the air filter again. Mebbe that's it, got mebbe 7 hours since last clean...

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One small addition.....could the Throttle Position Sensor on the side of the carb be out of adjustment?

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It starts fine from dead cold?

 

Yep check valves. That is the first sign that your valves need to be adjusted. 

 

Very Good, Fellas.

 

Thanks, Will Do.

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It starts fine from dead cold?

 

Two intepretations of "dead cold" in play:

 

1) Off a trailer, cycle sitting out all nite on a dry, non-humid, nite, mid 40's air temp, getting ready to ride. No air valve adjust (did not "pull the choke knob"). 10th button press (starting to think about pulling the knob...), it finally ticks over...

 

2) Directly out of the mid 50's temp. garage, washed it (post ride now, next day), set in sun to dry. Open door to examine air filter (its filthy), leave door open.  Crank it, ticks right over 1st push.  Idle Run 5 minutes to get'r toasty., turn it off.  Set 2 minutes, check the oil. Crank it again, ticks right over 1st try.

 

Go Figure.  I'll check the valves...

 

Edit:

 

It'll be awhile before I do the check. Busted my wrist on that ride, now I'm out for part of this season <sigh>

Edited by mebgardner

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That sucks. Heal up quick.

Was going to mention that the last ride I went on, it was 19 degrees. Bike would not start. Had to push start it and even then it took a few times. Not sure what the problem was, ran great the rest of the day. Started at home cold on the second try every time.

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I also have the (now well known) hot start issue. Glowing header at idle. Backfire at engine braking. Weak power at just-off-idle revs (as when just slipping clutch to set off in a gentle mannor...).

If you for example stall it, it just won't e-start when engine is warm), air is cold (have only ridden my bike at low temps, from minus 5 to +10 C) unless you:

- pull cold-start knob

- OR crank it 2-3secs on e-start with full throttle, release e-start, close throttle, push e-start.

 

Tried to get my local authorized YAMAHA-dealer to get the problem. First they said they didn't have the FI-tool, then that they did, but the tool could only set the O2 temporarily, and that it would go back to stock (0) setting after restart of bike!!! I mailed them the essentials from this thread (part-no of the FI-tool, how to plug it in and what buttons to push, in what order), they replied that they couldn't help me... Sooo dissapointed. :thumbsdn:

 

Found out that Yamaha Scandinavia (I live in :sweden: ) don't have a contact E-mail. :banghead:

I'm gonna call them on monday. If I don't get the right answers there, I'm gonna raise it to Yamaha Europe...

 

Bike is a 2012 with euro-spec ECU (1DX002M29E00EB), Yamaha competition kit header (slightly lager diameter than stock, without O2-meter) and Yamaha competition kit alu Slip-On. Snorkel in place.

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It does not reset to 0, they are smoking crack. Keep escalating the issue up the line until you get it resolved, or just get an fi tool and do it yourself.

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The FI tool sets the CO level, not the O2 level; so the dealer was partially right.  Once you program the CO level it doesn't reset until you reprogram it again with the FI tool.

Edited by AtomicGeo

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Have you sorted out your connectors yet?  I'm kind of curious how your test turns out!

 

 

Yes.  Here's a pic of my FI tool w/ my homemade cable that connects directly to my plug for the ECU.  The plug for the ECU is located #38 if you look up the wiring for the 2014 WR450F manual.  With this setup, there is no need to connect with alligator clips for power from the battery terminals.

 

FIPic_zpsba12e3f2.jpg

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The FI tool sets the CO level, not the O2 level; so the dealer was partially right.  Once you program the CO level it doesn't reset until you reprogram it again with the FI tool.

My bad, I meant the CO-level, which I also asked the dealer about. But, as somone mentioned, they were probably on some kind of drugs...

But I ordered the FI-tool. I think I got a pretty good deal, I'm paying around 75$. Hopefully it's the right one...

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I've been following this thread and just thought it worth noting that on my 2015 WR450F I have had zero starting problems from cold or when hot. On the button every time.

It came with the comp ecu as stock and I've now installed a FMF Powercore slip on but it was firing up straight away with the stock pipe too. I haven't dont anything to the tune of the engine. Environment is hot, sandy and at sea level

It's a UK model I think

Wish I could cut and paste my engine settings for those of you having problems :-/

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I couldn't get my local dealer to help adjust mine, so I bought the tool myself

 

Sold my WR450 and still have the FI diagnostic tool if anyone would like to purchase it. Only used once to adjust my bike before I sold it

Comes with a bunch of other harnesses that I have no idea what they're for...lol

 

$140 shipped 

 

email me at two240s@gmail.com

 

IMG_20160205_173754803_zpsikukhwcs.jpg

Edited by two240s

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I'd love to have that, but the boss says no right now.

 

Just a tip: At least on my bike, what makes it start every time when hot, I turn the throttle to the mark on the hand grip, push the start button for 3 revolutions, let go of throttle (and button) and then hit start button. Starts every time. My CO is set to 13.

 

And if you struggle with neutral like I do (who doesn't with big clunky boots on), try this: http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1146257-add-a-neutral-light-to-your-wr/

Edited by wizbangdoodle
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The GYTR ECU DOES change the entire map, both fuel and ignition.....but the TUNER does not affect the new ECU below 4000rpm.

Without the GYTR ECU, it will NEVER RUN CORRECTLY.

The stock ECU has a clock in it. Until it sees 5 hours, it WILL NOT RUN OR START CORRECTLY because the ignition is retarded -4 until it passes 5 hours. This is SOP on all FI bikes now, so new owners won't seize the motor in the first few hours of riding.......

On the first batch of KTM EXC's, the clock was 10 hours, and it drove everyone nuts.....

Remember, when you start the bike, let it warm up to get to full temp, for a few minutes.......and then.....

Then kill the motor for 3 min, restart the bike WITHOUT ANY THROTTLE OR THROTTLE BLIPS, and let it idle for at least one minute.

Kill the motor, and then re-start and ride as desired.

This will allow the ECU to re-map to the info from the Mass Air Pressure and Temp sensors, correcting the F/I and Ignition map for your riding area.

The ECU mapping CANNOT / WILL NOT CHANGE WHILE YOU ARE RIDING.

So if you go up in attitude you have to repeat the last two steps, if you notice the bike running rich or lean.

 

This solved my starting issues. I'm running a '15 WR450F with stock airbox, stock exhaust, comp ECU, and throttle stop removed.

 

Before doing this, I'd always have to crack my throttle open a hair. 

 

Despite the bike adapting its starting fuel / timing, the header continues to glow cherry red. I suppose this only affects starting and not idling.

 

The FI Diagnostic tool can still be ordered from K&L for around $200, although you'll need to find a shop that sells K&L parts to do so. YU-03182 / 90890-03182-00 has not been discontinued. Personally, I wouldn't risk ordering from Taiwan or India.

Edited by skulkingcrow

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I am thinking about buying a used 2015 WR450F that requires five or six kicks to crank and a second or two to crank with the electric starter. Does this seem normal? Do you think the valves might need to be adjusted? Thanks

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I am thinking about buying a used 2015 WR450F that requires five or six kicks to crank and a second or two to crank with the electric starter. Does this seem normal? Do you think the valves might need to be adjusted? Thanks

 

Mine starts on first or 2nd kick every time.

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