W85W58

2012 WR450 Starting woes

506 posts in this topic

I could not agree more. The Power Tuner only changes the lookup table from 3000 up. (3000 does crossover into the 2000 rpm range) It should be 1500 up. You can get the FI tool for less than $100 on ebay.  And just change the connector on it. I would love to get the plug that fits the ECU so that I could build a programer that I could plug in the ECU and set the CO values for others off the bike.

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I could not agree more. The Power Tuner only changes the lookup table from 3000 up. (3000 does crossover into the 2000 rpm range) It should be 1500 up. You can get the FI tool for less than $100 on ebay.  And just change the connector on it. I would love to get the plug that fits the ECU so that I could build a programer that I could plug in the ECU and set the CO values for others off the bike.

 

I'll bet I could find that plug. Of course you'd have to map out the pins to get it right.

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I have the schematics.

Here's a pic of my IF Tool that I changed out the plug on. I also got the plug that fits the Yamaha quads.ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1412996536.858333.jpg

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I have the schematics.

Here's a pic of my IF Tool that I changed out the plug on. I also got the plug that fits the Yamaha quads.attachicon.gifImageUploadedByThumper Talk1412996536.858333.jpg

We're did you get the three pin plug and parts that attach to the rear light that are shown in the picture. Trying to make a clean connect between brake light rear light and blinkers

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Other then being Japanese I'm not sure, the ones I use were $14 at my local electronic store, probably have done over 100 crimps with them and no complaints. Just search crimping tool for non-insulated lugs.

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I'm going out on a limb here.....what about a slightly dragging clutch?

 

If you had a dragging clutch, low battery (say 75%) and a lean idle setting, I'd bet it'd be hell to start. Correct all 3 if you want a bike that starts well.

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BTW, I think this is the plug for the ECU

 

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/MX23A26SF1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKkAz7jnNYZmaAcpg57xgmEU%3d

 

Made by JAE. Mfg part number is MX23A26SF1                    

 Allied Electronics has them for $5.38 each

 

Digi-key has a nice picture of it.

Edited by wizbangdoodle

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Ok, so I just got back from the dealer. Things were slow and the service manager had all of his techs out sick or in training somewhere. We took the diagnostic tool and the sniffer and hooked it all up. He had never done this before and I had only read what you guys on this site have said. I felt like I had a pretty good understanding of how it operates.

 

We started the bike up to give it a baseline on the CO2 reading. It seemed to level out at about 1.4%. We then started to make adjustments, initially shutting off the bike (only engine, not ignition), making the change and starting it back up. We then tried to make changes on the fly, and that seemed to work. Starting from 0, I first set it to 5 and we watched the CO2 rise to approximately 2.5. I found that you have to give the bike and sniffer time to settle into the new setting. We ended up going up and down too fast and did not get accurate readings in my opinion. After setting it to 9, we let it run and the sniffer settled in about 3. I went to 10 and got about 3.3-3.4 on the sniffer. I was trying to figure out how much change in CO2 could be had for every increment on the diagnostic tool. 

 

About this time, fluid was coming out of the bottom of the bike. BOIL OVER! Damn, would have to cool down and start again. We pulled out a big fan and set it in front of the bike. Problem solved. After about 10 minutes, started it back up and continued our testing.  I set it at 13 and waited for the CO2 reading to settle in. It was about 3.9-4.0. At this point I wanted to see if it would start easily. Disconnected everything and held the back brake, shifted into first and let out the clutch. Pulled in the clutch and hit the magic button, wah lah, started on the first try. Killed it a few more times and started right up. I left it at 13 with the agreement that I could come in anytime and use the diagnostic tool to set a new number. Great dealership and great service manager.  I'll take it for a ride soon and see how much better it is. 

Edited by wizbangdoodle
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I agree, the #1 issue is with the idle mix set too low. But I would submit that other issues are at play. It seems to me that if your bike is hot and won't start, and you pull the "choke" and it starts fine, that indicate a lean idle setting.

 

Except that the "choke" isn't a choke.  It isn't even an "enrichment device" as is the cold start knob on the FCR carb.  What it is, in fact, is an air bleed, having virtually the same effect as cracking open the throttle does, absent any change in the throttle angle being sent to the ECU by the TPS.

 

Most EFI units use the TPS during cranking.  You start at closed throttle base settings, and as the plate tips open, the fuel delivery is slightly increased in response.  That continues only up to a point, after which fuel delivery is cut off entirely on the assumption that the operator is trying to clear a flood by using wider throttle openings at startup, same as one can with a carb.  This is why either using the cold start knob OR cracking the throttle helps EFI YZF's start hot.

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Yes, I agree, hence the "choke" in quotes, lest someone not understand what the Starter Plunger (as Yamaha calls it) is.

 

From the 2012 WR450F Technical Orientation Guide: The starter plunger is actually an air bypass port (not a choke), which allows air to enter into the intake tract resulting in a lower intake pressure reading. The ECU receives this signal from the intake pressure sensor and increases the fuel/air mixture so it is richer by adjusting the injector duration.

 

So, while it is not technically a choke, it essentially does the same thing. It's just fooling the ECU.

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I have the schematics.

Here's a pic of my IF Tool that I changed out the plug on. I also got the plug that fits the Yamaha quads.attachicon.gifImageUploadedByThumper Talk1412996536.858333.jpg

 

Did you have to change the plug for it to work?  Did the center wire that went to the original plug have to be swapped with one of the other wires?  I got the Chinese tool that looks like yours, but it never worked.

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Did you have to change the plug for it to work?  Did the center wire that went to the original plug have to be swapped with one of the other wires?  I got the Chinese tool that looks like yours, but it never worked.

This is another thing that I discovered on my visit to the dealer today. When dealerships received these diagnostic tools, they also received a "sub lead". It's a harness that plugs in-between the bike and the tool. It has an on/off switch and an inline fuse. p/n 90890-03212-00 

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This is another thing that I discovered on my visit to the dealer today. When dealerships received these diagnostic tools, they also received a "sub lead". It's a harness that plugs in-between the bike and the tool. It has an on/off switch and an inline fuse. p/n 90890-03212-00 

 

I have the the actual tool also, but had to get make my own connector.  It works, but isn't pretty.  The one from China looked a lot better and had the correct plug, but it would not connect to the bike when powered on; it would just time out.  The picture vlxjim supplied about shows he cut the connector off and put on another.  I can only think the connector that felt like it worked on mine, wasn't actually making a good connection or the wires going to it aren't in the right spots... or the device just doesn't work.

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I could not agree more. The Power Tuner only changes the lookup table from 3000 up. (3000 does crossover into the 2000 rpm range) It should be 1500 up. You can get the FI tool for less than $100 on ebay.  And just change the connector on it. I would love to get the plug that fits the ECU so that I could build a programer that I could plug in the ECU and set the CO values for others off the bike.

 

I dont think so.  I just checked eBay, and they're still about $150.00  (thats what I paid for mine last year, too).

 

Ships from either Taiwain or India, and India is charging $45 for shipping.

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