W85W58

2012 WR450 Starting woes

509 posts in this topic

OK, thanks.

 

I've been thru dozens of threads in here (the TT WR forum).

 

So far, I've found only one thread where an individual posted an actual mapping: "My Map vlxjim".

 

Otherwise, lots of folks write about them, but few (one, so far) give actual data.

 

Am I missing something?  ...as in, this data is not pinned at the top, in an FAQ?

4. Google: gytr power tuner maps. Ton of info here.

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I did not read all 321 replies to this thread, but something I noticed in an early post was this:

 


Clearly not the problem for this post. If the bike starts with the cold start button when hot, the idle is too lean, not too rich....

 

Here, the OP makes the errant assumption that the cold start knob richens the mixture, when in fact, it is a simple bypass air bleed (also controls idle speed).  The fuel mix is enriched for cold starting by the ECU using information from the coolant sensor.  Either cracking the throttle or using the cold start knob when warm has been something that has worked for problematic starting issues on the 2010+ YZ450 pretty much since it came out. 

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4. Google: gytr power tuner maps. Ton of info here.

 

This is great advice.  Lots of maps to be found.

 

Thanks!

 

So, when I browsed the "pictures" offering of given maps, something I noticed right away is that many of them advance the timing.

 

Only a very few retard timing, and then only by -1.

 

I mention this because I believe it's relavant to the OP: Hard starting.  I think somewhere in the pages of this thread one of our members has to justify his view of retarding the timing by -1, and when he does, he's indicating that the stock Comp ECU arrives (with "all 0's" setting) with timing already well advanced.

 

These online map offering appear to support his view.  Not many are willing to "step back" further, and most actually advance it some more for performance. The map that I saw that suggested a -1 retard was useful for hard pack / rock / climbing use.

 

I would like to read some discussion about how this might affect "hard starting", or "boil over" conditions.  I dont think I've seen that yet.

 

Thanks,

Bob

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So, when I browsed the "pictures" offering of given maps, something I noticed right away is that many of them advance the timing.

 

Only a very few retard timing, and then only by -1.

 

I mention this because I believe it's relavant to the OP: Hard starting.  I think somewhere in the pages of this thread one of our members has to justify his view of retarding the timing by -1, and when he does, he's indicating that the stock Comp ECU arrives (with "all 0's" setting) with timing already well advanced.

 

These online map offering appear to support his view.  Not many are willing to "step back" further, and most actually advance it some more for performance. The map that I saw that suggested a -1 retard was useful for hard pack / rock / climbing use.

 

I would like to read some discussion about how this might affect "hard starting", or "boil over" conditions.  I dont think I've seen that yet.

 

 

Once again, the GYT-R tuner does not have an effect on timing and fuel at idle, so I rather doubt it affects starting.  The factory technician's scanner tool does have that capability, however.

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Once again, the GYT-R tuner does not have an effect on timing and fuel at idle, so I rather doubt it affects starting.  The factory technician's scanner tool does have that capability, however.

 

Yes, you're right of course.  I must have been thinking of a different thread / topic.

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At the end of this: 

 

Can we get a part number and vendor for a hand held tool that will connect. It appears the black tool that says "yamaha" in red works? 

 

How about the special connector cable that will plug into the tool mention above and to the WR's comp ECU connector? 

 

Please vendors and part numbers. This information is really solving peoples problems. Thank you al

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At the end of this: 

 

Can we get a part number and vendor for a hand held tool that will connect. It appears the black tool that says "yamaha" in red works? 

 

How about the special connector cable that will plug into the tool mention above and to the WR's comp ECU connector? 

 

Please vendors and part numbers. This information is really solving peoples problems. Thank you al

I got the YAMAHA FUEL INJECTION DIAGNOSTIC TOOL part # 908900318200 from Ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/251361746798?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649). Here were no instructions included so I used the procedures I found on this thread.

 

This (and I quote):

I used the supplied lead with the red+black clips and the green lug.

I connected the clips to the battery and the green lead up to the green connection in the airbox ( middle pin of 3 pin connector).

Tester read connecting so I held down the mode button, then turned the bikes power button, next thing you know Diag mode!!!

 

The above worked! It would have been hit or miss figuring out the last part so thanks to those who put it out there! The FI tool read the CO as 0, so I bumped it up to 9. I hit the button and it fired up immediately. It used to take a couple of revolutions to fire, now it was like a half of one.

 

I tested it yesterday out on the trail and it really seems to have made a difference. It now starts immediately hot or cold and runs a little crisper right off of idle. This adjustment really is a must do if you want your bike to run to its potential. I have the GYTR tool as well, you really need both.

 

I’m going to keep the GYTR tool for future tuning, but I think I’m done with the CO tool. Maybe someone who needs one can just buy it here, it definitely works. Send me a message if interested. Or if you live near Bennington Vt you can come over and use it at no charge.

Edited by nytraxr

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If you reset the CO, does it cure the restart issues after stalling?

 

The only time my '13 has difficulty starting is when I stall it.  Even then, it's just a little irritating because it takes two tries instead of one.  If I kill the engine with the button, it restarts instantly with the e-start.  I have the comp. ecu. and FMF.

 

That tool is sold in India and costs $155 + $45 shipping.  What does the Yamaha dealer charge to reset the CO?

Edited by Navaho6

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If you reset the CO, does it cure the restart issues after stalling?

 

The only time my '13 has difficulty starting is when I stall it.  Even then, it's just a little irritating because it takes two tries instead of one.  If I kill the engine with the button, it restarts instantly with the e-start.  I have the comp. ecu. and FMF.

 

That tool is sold in India and costs $155 + $45 shipping.  What does the Yamaha dealer charge to reset the CO?

 

I don't know, it hasn't stalled since I adjusted it.

 

What did happen early on before I made any adjustments to the ECU with either tool was that I locked up the back wheel and it stalled and wouldn't start. The check engine light was blinking and couldn't even pop start it. Luckily we weren't far and my friend came out in the woods with his truck and got the bike. If I was far out I would have been screwed. It was blinking three short blinks, then three long and then three short. This was with the comp ECU. After a few days it stopped blinking and started. The dealer didn't know what to make of it, there were no error codes.

 

For me, it doesn't matter what the dealer would charge. It's easier to get the tool and do it myself even if they did it for free. I may try to bump it up a couple more, but probably not and then I'll just resell it on ebay.

Edited by nytraxr

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I don't know, it hasn't stalled since I adjusted it.

 

What did happen early on was that I locked up the back wheel and it stalled and wouldn't start. The check engine light was blinking and couldn't even pop start it. Luckily we weren't far and my friend came out in the woods with his truck and got the bike. If I was far out I would have been screwed. It was blinking three short blinks, then three long and then three short. This was with the comp ECU. After a few days it stopped blinking and started. The dealer didn't know what to make of it, there were no error codes.

 

For me, it doesn't matter what the dealer would charge. It's easier to get the tool and do it myself even it they did it for free. I may try to bump it up a couple more, but probably not and then I'll just resell it on ebay.

 

That's SOS! Not good..... :rolleyes:

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Nice, thank you. I ordered the same tool. My Wr is a beast in the warm months. Starts right up, and in the cold months it start right up AFTER you finally get it fired and warm. To get it fired when its cold might take 50 kicks and a warn down battery. Hope this works I'll report back. I have an emissions machine, I can tell you guys what my bike was at, an what I change to reach a CO% out the pipe and the corresponding performance. 

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I don't know, it hasn't stalled since I adjusted it.

 

What did happen early on before I made any adjustments to the ECU with either tool was that I locked up the back wheel and it stalled and wouldn't start. The check engine light was blinking and couldn't even pop start it. Luckily we weren't far and my friend came out in the woods with his truck and got the bike. If I was far out I would have been screwed. It was blinking three short blinks, then three long and then three short. This was with the comp ECU. After a few days it stopped blinking and started. The dealer didn't know what to make of it, there were no error codes.

 

For me, it doesn't matter what the dealer would charge. It's easier to get the tool and do it myself even if they did it for free. I may try to bump it up a couple more, but probably not and then I'll just resell it on ebay.

 

I would be down for renting it from you. I am sure others would as opposed to buying one. Let me know what you think.

 

Scott

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I would be down for renting it from you. I am sure others would as opposed to buying one. Let me know what you think.

 

Scott

 

 

That's a good idea and I don't mind helping out my fellow WR450 riders, especially those that bringing it to the dealer is not really an option. It's out on loan right now to someone here, but when I get it back it's available to whoever needs it.

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Put me on the list! Be glad to paypal a said deposit and return it on a said date.

That way you will have a peace ofmind as well as it will pay for itself.

That's a good idea and I don't mind helping out my fellow WR450 riders, especially those that bringing it to the dealer is not really an option. It's out on loan right now to someone here, but when I get it back it's available to whoever needs it.

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The best way to set this is Find a Dealer that has an EGA and this required Yamaha tool. This tool is a mandatory tool all dealers must have. It works on Raptor 700 c3 scooters WR. The random setting of the CO is not ideal. These bikes are EPA compliant so the are designed and are happy at 1.5% CO. There is a restart issues with the WR for Sure, some even have overheating issues due to the lean condition. It will be worth the 70 to 110 bucks it the shop is has GOLD certified techs. 

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The best way to set this is Find a Dealer that has an EGA and this required Yamaha tool. This tool is a mandatory tool all dealers must have. It works on Raptor 700 c3 scooters WR. The random setting of the CO is not ideal. These bikes are EPA compliant so the are designed and are happy at 1.5% CO. There is a restart issues with the WR for Sure, some even have overheating issues due to the lean condition. It will be worth the 70 to 110 bucks it the shop is has GOLD certified techs. 

There is no problem with doing it yourself. This is the same as changing out the pilot jet on a carb bike. Very few race bike use a EGA. Just don't go leaner than the base line setting.  If you go too rich you will know. For me 20 was to rich and 15 was right on I might of gone 13 or 14 and it would of been very close to what I run. These WR's may work at 1.5% but this is not were they like to be. That said if you feel the need to go to the dealer, that most of the time knows shit about the WR's FI system. Much less tuning one Please do so.

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Rode this weekend on my '13 along with a friend who has a '12.  His WR is completely stock.  Mine has the comp. ecu, fmf pipe and fmf map.  My bike starts instantly.  His does also, most of the time but sometimes his would take 4 or 5 tries to start.  I could tell he was frustrated.  He also boiled his coolant when we were riding a little slower through a technical area.  Mine never ran hot.  It was in the 50's when his boiled over.  It's a real problem for him in the warmer months.

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Rode this weekend on my '13 along with a friend who has a '12.  His WR is completely stock.  Mine has the comp. ecu, fmf pipe and fmf map.  My bike starts instantly.  His does also, most of the time but sometimes his would take 4 or 5 tries to start.  I could tell he was frustrated.  He also boiled his coolant when we were riding a little slower through a technical area.  Mine never ran hot.  It was in the 50's when his boiled over.  It's a real problem for him in the warmer months.

 

Easy solution

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Yes, I keep telling him to replace the ecu.  I have not reset my CO level.  Might do that when it warms up although I rarely ride during the warmer months. 

 

Can I use the Power Tuner on his bike?  Someone told me that FI tuners only work on the 1st bike that you plug them into.  That way, they sell more product.  Is that true with the Yamaha Power Tuner?

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The best way to set this is Find a Dealer that has an EGA and this required Yamaha tool. This tool is a mandatory tool all dealers must have. It works on Raptor 700 c3 scooters WR. The random setting of the CO is not ideal. These bikes are EPA compliant so the are designed and are happy at 1.5% CO. There is a restart issues with the WR for Sure, some even have overheating issues due to the lean condition. It will be worth the 70 to 110 bucks it the shop is has GOLD certified techs. 

 

How does one verify this "Gold" status on techs at the local shop?  Ask'em?

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