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How to fix XR650L Motor Mods & Starter Problems

By mastera210,
in XR600R & XR650R/L

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mastera210

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I am new at posting but here goes. I am on my 2nd XR650L the first was back in 92? I bought the first one out. And with the help of WKR (Woody Kyle Racing) we built a 727cc motor at the time Powerroll did the stroked crank I thing it was 5mm? the bore was 102mm and 11to1 comp. And then the starter could BARLEY turn over motor had to do a combo bump starter at same time to start it!!!

I was going to race bike in Florida Trail Riders H/S A-4Stroke class and it was dead engine start this is not GOOD! So I came up with this system that would start the bike FASTER than stock motor it counld even start bike in gear with clutch out (I had saftey switch not hooked up) I got the holeshot in every race!! hell I was 1/2 way to first turn before anybody else got started. I had bike for 2 years then sold it and know that 3 years after that the guy who bought it said NO problems with starter it was still the stock one!!!! So you can do anything you want to motor High comp big bore, Stroked Cranks, Cams no decomp, XR600 stator CDI mods, ANYTHING and it will crank FASTER than the stock motor ever did!!

OK you want to know how right? It was EASY really. 24v STARTING SYSTEM!!!! All it took was one extra starter relay and one DPDT relay and 2 smaller batterys back in 92 the batterys was the only weak part of system. I was using 2 2AH gel cell batterys I replaced them once so the guy who bought it. And yes it will charge BOTH batterys. I cant draw a diagram worth a S--T so I will give step by step and maybe someone could draw one for us? And with the new batterys we have now no more weak part of system any more!!

Parts needed

2 Antigravity 4 cell batterys 120CCA amps $130.00 each. Will fit top of airbox under seat.

1 Bosch 12v 75amp relay ebay $26.00 (im using two to replace stock relay smaller than stock)

1 DPDT 10amp realy many place to buy.

Hookup num 1 battery to stock ing system. Now unhook the two small wires that go to stock relay the ones that go the starter button. Hook them up the coil term on DPDT relay. Take two wires hook them up to pos/neg on num 1 battery and to norm closed on DPDT relay. Now on the norm closed on DPDT relay hook them to pos/neg on num 2 battery. Now the bike has one 8 cell 12v battery got it? Now take the new 75amp relay from pos on num 1 to relay then from relay to neg on num 2 and pos on num 2 battery to stock relay. Now on on DPDT relay on switched out run two wires to the now 2 starter relays. Now you have 24v to starter.

This is how it works in normal running you have 2 12v batterys both charging at 12v. Then when you push starter button the DPDT relay kicks out num 2 battery then engages the 2 starter relays and sends 24v to starter then let go of button DPDT relay disengeges starter relays and puts batterys back to two 12v for charging EASY right??

You can test before you buy parts get 2 12v battery hook the up for 24v ground them to bike then turn on bike and take the wire from your test pack and touch it to starter

You now have twice the power to starter it spins twice as fast and at 24v amp draw from starter is 1/2

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mastera210
mastera210

I am new at posting but here goes. I am on my 2nd XR650L the first was back in 92? I bought the first one out. And with the help of WKR (Woody Kyle Racing) we built a 727cc motor at the time Powerroll

pdxthumper
pdxthumper

Finally got the SC-1's installed, bike fired right up, faster than ever before in its life.  Less than 1 sec on the button, really quite impressive.  Have to say I really like the Antigravity batterie

XR650L_Dave
XR650L_Dave

So starter takes place of trolling motor, batteries in parallel except when load detected. Just use starter relay between the unit and the motor.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
Veteran

rmhrc630

Posted
Posted (edited)

I am new at posting but here goes. I am on my 2nd XR650L the first was back in 92? I bought the first one out. And with the help of WKR (Woody Kyle Racing) we built a 727cc motor at the time Powerroll did the stroked crank I thing it was 5mm? the bore was 102mm and 11to1 comp. And then the starter could BARLEY turn over motor had to do a combo bump starter at same time to start it!!!

I was going to race bike in Florida Trail Riders H/S A-4Stroke class and it was dead engine start this is not GOOD! So I came up with this system that would start the bike FASTER than stock motor it counld even start bike in gear with clutch out (I had saftey switch not hooked up) I got the holeshot in every race!! hell I was 1/2 way to first turn before anybody else got started. I had bike for 2 years then sold it and know that 3 years after that the guy who bought it said NO problems with starter it was still the stock one!!!! So you can do anything you want to motor High comp big bore, Stroked Cranks, Cams no decomp, XR600 stator CDI mods, ANYTHING and it will crank FASTER than the stock motor ever did!!

OK you want to know how right? It was EASY really. 24v STARTING SYSTEM!!!! All it took was one extra starter relay and one DPDT relay and 2 smaller batterys back in 92 the batterys was the only weak part of system. I was using 2 2AH gel cell batterys I replaced them once so the guy who bought it. And yes it will charge BOTH batterys. I cant draw a diagram worth a S--T so I will give step by step and maybe someone could draw one for us? And with the new batterys we have now no more weak part of system any more!!

Parts needed

2 Antigravity 4 cell batterys 120CCA amps $130.00 each. Will fit top of airbox under seat.

1 Bosch 12v 75amp relay ebay $26.00 (im using two to replace stock relay smaller than stock)

1 DPDT 10amp realy many place to buy.

Hookup num 1 battery to stock ing system. Now unhook the two small wires that go to stock relay the ones that go the starter button. Hook them up the coil term on DPDT relay. Take two wires hook them up to pos/neg on num 1 battery and to norm closed on DPDT relay. Now on the norm closed on DPDT relay hook them to pos/neg on num 2 battery. Now the bike has one 8 cell 12v battery got it? Now take the new 75amp relay from pos on num 1 to relay then from relay to neg on num 2 and pos on num 2 battery to stock relay. Now on on DPDT relay on switched out run two wires to the now 2 starter relays. Now you have 24v to starter.

This is how it works in normal running you have 2 12v batterys both charging at 12v. Then when you push starter button the DPDT relay kicks out num 2 battery then engages the 2 starter relays and sends 24v to starter then let go of button DPDT relay disengeges starter relays and puts batterys back to two 12v for charging EASY right??

You can test before you buy parts get 2 12v battery hook the up for 24v ground them to bike then turn on bike and take the wire from your test pack and touch it to starter

You now have twice the power to starter it spins twice as fast and at 24v amp draw from starter is 1/2

Sounds awesome

So can you clarify the parts needed?

The Antigravity battery - is antigravity a type or a brand? Can you use other brand 4 cell batteries?

http://www.shop.anti...ttery-AG401.htm

For example could I use 2 of the following: http://www.super-b.com/products/super-B-2600.html?setCurrencyId=2

Bosch 75AMP relay - question can I use 2 stock relays or are the Bosch relays superior?

DPDT - what brand type do you suggest?

Thanks heaps

Edited by rmhrc630
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mastera210

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The Antigravity batteries fit perfect under seat to use 600 side panel you can use any battery just make sure they are two of the same

You can use two stock starter relays or one stock relay and one bosch relay im using two because they are smaller that stock easy to find spot to put them

Any 10 amp DPDT relay will work take your pick

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rmhrc630

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The Antigravity batteries fit perfect under seat to use 600 side panel you can use any battery just make sure they are two of the same

You can use two stock starter relays or one stock relay and one bosch relay im using two because they are smaller that stock easy to find spot to put them

Any 10 amp DPDT relay will work take your pick

Thanks heaps!!!

Have you got any videos of such a set up?

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mastera210

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For those who worry about the starter handling 24v here is some info on it.

Its common to run 36v golf carts on 48v

Electric motor's 101.

The higher the voltage the less amps it takes to move it.

You have to get the right amount of amps, voltage, tire size for the cart to be right. Just buying a high amp controller with a high speed motor doesn't mean it's the best. Everything has to work together.

You don't want a high speed motor with tall tires to pull many hills no matter how slight of incline they are it just doesn't work.

You also need to know what you want out of the cart. I have one cart at our beach house and it only see's flat paved roads. It has the high speed motor and a 300amp controller and runs 28MPH with 4 adluts on board. This is all it ever see's though.

36 volt motor on 48 volts is fine it will last as long as it would on a 36 volt cart. If you are going to run big tires then get PQ to build you a torque motor not the bandit.icon_wink.gif

And from a elec kart forum

You could do a 12v motor at 18v or 24v. You could do a 24v motor at 36 or 48v. You could do a 36v motor at 48v. I wouldn't put more than 48v in a kart for two reasons: weight (batteries are heavy, and 4 12v batteries is about as much as you want to carry around) and safety. 48v is high voltage for DC. A person with dry fingers can touch both terminals of a 12v battery and (probably) not fry themselves. However, do it with 120v house voltage, and you'll get a nasty shock. That's because it takes a certain amount of voltage to overcome your body (especially your skin) resistance. Once there's enough voltage to overcome that resistance, you're being electrocuted. It only takes 0.025 of one amp to stop your heart, and any battery will do that easily. If you're going to make an electric go kart, you need to educate yourself on electricity safety. I won't write that book here, but go read up on it- and don't put more than 48v in a kart unless you've had technician-level training. (Note: I'm not saying 48v is 'safe', but neither are go-karts)

And more info

12v Motors on 24v

Motor current rating

Motors are specified to run at a stated rpm at a particular applied voltage with a specified loading - that at which the motor takes its maximum continuous current.

If you run the motor under a lighter load than this 'name plate rating' its current consumption will reduce and its speed will increase slightly.

If you increase the load, then the motor's current consumption will increase and its speed will reduce. Obviously you are now exceeding the motor's continuous rating so it will start to get hotter than it should. The greater the overload, the quicker the motor will heat so there is a time limit on such an overload. However it is usually safe to run a motor at a 300%-400% over current for, perhaps, a minute - although this will vary from motor to motor.

Motor voltage

If you run a 12v motor from 24v its current drain and speed will still depend on the mechanical loading. However under no load it will now run at twice the speed at which it originally ran with 12v. Heating in the motor is still related to the current - so you can still run it at its full rated mechanical load/current. However if the motor is badly balanced you may expect noise and vibration as the general construction may be inadequate for the faster speed. There may also be a problem with brush wear since the brushes are being asked to switch the current twice as fast. These effects are, however not very likely and usually the speed increase is quite OK.

There is one caveat on this. The motor is an inductive device and the commutator and brushes are a mechanical, switch. Such a mechanical switching system will have a limit on the maximum rate at which is can work and if this is approached, the commutation breaks down. Exactly what the limits are, I would not like to say but one effect is noise - and extreme noise can, on occasion, cause a controller to fail. The effect is quite rare - but beware of excessive over-revving.

Motor speed limits

Limits on motor speed are not simply the bearing quality. If you rev a motor hard enough - centrifugal force will take over and the rotor will fly to pieces. Also brush and commutator design is important. Depending on the design these will have a maximum switching rate and operating above this speed will cause tremendous brush arcing. In extreme circumstances this will generate severe noise transients which can destroy the controller. This is unlikely: we have only ever seen one customer do this: he was running 12v motors on 36v and blew two controllers! These motor limits are not things a controller manufacturer can really comment on: you need to consult the motor manufacturer.

If you overload the motor, its current rises in the same way whether the motor is running from 12v or 24v. However on stall the current from 24v could be twice that from 12v, so the motor could get four times as hot (heating is proportional to the square of the current). This however won't happen when you are using a good controller as the controller will limit the current to its designed value. Also the controller varies the voltage on the motor so you are probably not going to use the motor at full voltage in any case.

Another consideration is that, if you put too much current through a permanent magnet motor, it is possible to slightly demagnetise the magnets. This is cumulative: the motor's performance will drop slightly each time you do it. However, for battery motors, is is probably fairly safe to assume that, at the rated voltage, the current drawn when the motor is stalled will not reach this demagnetisation level. If you were to run a 12v motor off a 24v battery the stall current could then be excessive if it weren't limited by the controller.

Therefore, provided you chose a controller suitable for the motor you use, you can usually run a motor 12v motor from a 24v battery with no effect except that full speed is doubled.

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