Loud bikes

Yes I am at 103dbs but it has it's benefits in the desert...... Do you guys still think I'm a villan?

You know you don't need that extra power unless your .000001% of the population, your a bad man!!! :)

Oldbones your missing the point, again, 7 DB in a scientific way may be quiter, but it doesn't matter to those people. Show me one, just one, place that has been left open because the noise level on bikes have been reduced, further show me one agreement with a community or any orginazation that has said

"If you get your bikes to XXX DB then your riding area can stay open"

Marin County Motorcycle Association Club property in Marin County - yes, you read that correctly Marin freaking County. We began enforcing our club rule of no riding before 9 AM, instituted a 96dB limit, re-routed a couple of trails that were on the edge of the property - and gee, the complaints from neighbors were dramatically reduced. Go figure. Noise carries across property lines - 103dB carries farther than 96dB. Reduce the noise emitted from a bike and fewer people know or care that you're there. End of story.

You asked for an example of where reducing the noise resulted in a riding area staying open - I provided it. Now shut up and get your bike to 96dB or quieter. 96dB is a reasonable number that IMO should have been the requirement all along.

Brian

NVR is reading comprehension something you missed? Didn't ask if your complaints dropped did I? Nope. Reread and rerespond. Was there an agreement between your club and the community that just by dropping DB's you would be allowed to stay open? simple question.

Can I hear the number of complaints before and after from the same times of day?? You through another factor in there that will eliminate complaints, you just stopped ridding at certian times. My question is did you drop complaints at the same time of day because the bikes were quiter? A major part of this argument is 103 DB vs. 96 DB, not part of my last question though. Was your old club rule 103DB and was that enforced or did you have bikes with the open exhust generating 118 DB?

Drop the 118DB attitude and respond back, love to hear your info but I'm going to assume that bikes at your club were allowed to run the higher DB limits so the cut isn't 7 db's more like 20. Complaints also dropped because of reduced riding time.

Whats quiter a 30-06 or 300 Win mag. does someone in the woods that doesn't like guns care?

Just got a new WB S-bend E-series from White Bros directly for $100.00......Cannot wait to get my bike back from the shop tonight and replace my old one.....Rabbits, Deer, and other varments beware, I'll be woods racing this weekend...

Play it Loud....

Bonzai :)

I'll also put this out there. Closing riding areas involve many issues, not just noise. A few years ago the Arapahoe County in Colorado attempted to close the Watkins MX track, I went to the County hearings on this. One of the big complaints they had was the number of trips the rescue squad were having to make to the MX track. Off topic but dealing with noise the Aurora Police in Colorado, firearms range were receiving many noise complaints years ago. This was stopped by reducing the shooting hours. They didn't silence the guns, just changed the allowed hours.

So with the above issues, the question remains. Has anyone found an area that has been allowed to stay open because of an agreement or by statement of a government offical, that noise has dropped so you are allowed to stay open or even will be allowed if you meet a certian limit?? No other issues ie hours of operation, dust, traffic involved.

> Anyone wanna race a decrepit 45 year old relic? If you win, I shut up and go away. If I win, you buy a quiet pipe. Any takers?

From another decrepit 45 year old relic, sure. You bring your 96db bike to

Taylor Park, where we ride from 9000 up to around 12000 feet, and you're on.

I pick the trails.

Merf

OK Endurodog, what your asking for is proof that quieter bikes means more area to ride. I haven't that proof.

I can tell you this: Of the five closest spots I could ride one year ago today, three are now closed. Two were for sure due to noise issues, I talked to the cops at both areas and they all said they, and the city, were tired of dealing with noise complaints. The third area I don't know why it closed. The remaining two are different from the first three in that they are far enough from residential areas to not be an issue. That's my empirical evidence.

Second, I do know that, to me (and I am a 426 rider that owns harleys as well, believe you me, I like the sound of a well tuned motor) a gutted pipe sounds like crap and is so loud it is annoying, even from a distance. My major point when I started this thread is not that I support laws and legislation governing our bikes, because I don't. I do however believe that it is our responsibility to police ourselves in order to preserve our chosen forms of recreation. Riding with a gutted pipe on your 426 in an area that will generate noise complaints is irresponsible, rude, and WILL perpetuate the problem. If you do it in my neighborhood, I will chase you down and we will talk about it.

I am a pilot by trade. I worked at the local airport for quite a while, and noise complaints were a regular issue from the nearby residences. Now, the airport was there before any of these $300,000 houses were, but these people don't care. I can tell you from watching and getting some of these calls where I worked how this happens, and how it affects us more than you think.

Float planes use a prop made for maximum power at takeoff. They are loud as hell! When taking off from the water, you need all that extra power, so that's unavoidable. BUT, when you take those floats off, and put that plane back on wheels, you do NOT need all that power to make a normal takeoff. But, what regularly happens, is a guy with his floatplane on wheels, takes off from the airport with full throttle (max RPM), and tries to climb as steeply as he can to impress the rest of the people at the airport. What he really does is make way more noise than needed, right over someone's house. He could have taken off using a few hundred lower RPM, still got great performance, and been MUCH quieter. So, about 15 minutes later, the phone rings and a citizen is telling me he just called the cops on a noisy airplane buzzing his house off the end of the runway. He tells me the tail number of the airplane, and it turns out to be one of our trainers that took off about five minutes after noisy guy did. Then the next day, the same citizen calls in another complaint on another trainer.

Now, the two complaints were unwarrented. Those airplanes are pretty quiet. The complaints were generated by one jerk who knows damn well he is making an unreasonable amount of noise.

That's why I said if you ride a gutted pipe in my neighborhood, I will have a talk with you. Because what will happen (and I have seen it before) is you will ride by and make a racket, then an hour later I will ride by making no more noise than I do every day when I ride by the same spot, and someone will call in a noise complaint on me. And the next guy to. And on me again tomorrow.

That's four complaints generated by one overly loud bike.

I don't care what the law says, I don't care what you percieve your rights to be. I know I love riding and I get pissed off when I see people doing things that I know will damage my ability to go riding. This is not limited to loud pipes either, just so happens it's the same people who leave piles of trash in the parking area, and who decide to ride wheelies up and down the paved road in front of the riding area (resulting in a visit from the cops, one more nail in the lid), and who... I could go on and on, in fact I do. I care a lot about this topic, because it affects me. And it affects you too. Your favorite riding area may be far enough out that you don't feel threatened right now, but how long will that last? Not forever, I guarantee. We must take care of our sport, or it will be taken from us.

Whew, ok I am done. :)

oldbones...I agree completely!!

Mickey is still a CIA operative and an alien and we are our own worst enemies.

Reading through this post just really tells me we are so divided on this issue and fail to recognize the reality of the situation.

We are loosing Ground PERIOD, and its not from the AMA, BRC and others making bad decisions (Thats a small part of it) It is you and I who sit on the side lines and do nothing but complain about it when it hits us at home.

What we need is activism that is able to send a clear message to the law makers that we are not going into the night with out a fight, UNITED and stead fast.

E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N :)

Oldbones,

you are right on target for what I am harping about - more population - airports HAVE closed that preceded the housing that surrounded them. I was airport manager for a small town for about 5 years...we had about 4 crop dusting outfits that would service the local area - mostly orchards then. One dipsh*t pilot used a noisy, high thrust prop on his Snow P&W 985 that got the whole town up about 5 in the morning - he was the same butthead that would drain his oil right on the ground - didn't care about regulations. Guess what, the City Council became less and less concerned about crop-dusters and soon they were no longer allowed on the airport site (other reasons too, but you know, they had lost all their friends in high places, primarily due to one person who didn't give a care).

Now, at the Hollister Hills OHV park, they are in the final trail layout phase of a new expansion area. For those of you who believe that lowering the sound does not add any area, well, this is an example of when it does. You see, the area is bordered by low density home sites, and those folks had attorneys and self-generated representatives who held that the state must adhere to sound levels which would not be audible from certain distances from the park as a condition of expansion. If the park does not enforce the 96db limit and the neighbors can prove that the sound is reaching certain check areas (yes, the neighbors have sound meters too) the park expansion area will be subject to closure. (I worked with the State on this project for several years).

And Yamakaze,

A loud pipe in the woods may be OK to you, and somehow represent some kind of symbol of independence, freedom, whatever, but as more and more people recreate and live nearby your woods and hear that noise (whether you are racing or not), more and more people will discount our sport - being negative to the quality of THEIR lives, and support land closures to it.

I think I'm talked out on this thread -

:D :D :D Sputter...U nailed this one. :)

If you go for a ride in the woods and no one hears you, were you really there? :)

If you go for a ride in the woods and hikers for two miles around hear you, are you going to be resented? Probably.

It's about sharing! Louder pipes take up more of the surrounding area.

EVERY RIDING AREA I RODE AS A TEENAGER WAS CLOSED STARTING WITH NOISE COMPLAINTS. Quiet pipes may not keep areas open, but LOUD PIPES CLOSE THEM DOWN.

Partially, I blame the aftermarket exhaust manufactures. A straight pipe would be good for drag racing, but most people wouldn't run a straight pipe as they KNOW it is too loud. The typical MX can is good for closed track racing, but too loud for open space riding. Yet, we convince ourselves that as long as we are running ANY muffler, we are OK. Most MX mufflers are too loud. I see muffler tests were the aftermarket pipe is a pound lighter and twice as loud. I wonder if the typical rider couldn't get the same results drilling out a stock muffler, where is the value?

A local government group was given a demonstration of trials bikes on the Rubicon Trail. They were impressed by the riding and how quiet the bikes ran.

I don't buy the argument of, "Hell, they will close down the riding area anyhow, so I'll ride with my loud pipe." This attitude should go the way of the guys who don't recycle old oil... gone!

As for horses and mtn bikes, the horse people have money and political connections, but we're gaining. Horses are stupid and freak easily. Always talk to them as you approach, horses understand people, not wheels. Riding quietly past horses is the worst thing. This comes from horse riders.

Sometimes when I am in my Office upstairs on the Putter, the window is open and the wind is just right.

I can fart and my neighbor hears it in his front yard.

I think I need a insert. :D

Sputter, You nailed it on the hills, you also forgot to add one small insie bitise detail. How many acres was purchased? and how many additional miles do we get?

Answer 6k acres

24 more miles

The less sound = more ground is not true entirely, in the hills case it was used at the bargaining table during the test and EIR reports. The fact is that BIG out of town developers along with the local farmers association had some major influence on the gaining and opening of the 24 miles. The remaining acreage is now a buffer zone (& will never get developed) that keeps these morons from developing right next to trails.

It is all about Dollars in the Hollister issue. The Farmers who are trying to sell there land to development are pissed because they can not get the city to annex specific areas to development. These same farmers have been against the hills for years look what happen to Bolado Park and the home owners in that region.

Closed a park form a noise due to the race track there and now want the fair grounds closed because of what "NOISE"

So it is true what you said and i do not undermine your work. But we lost ground on the Hills deal.

That is like spending 1000 bucks on the lotto and winning 100 and saying you win when in fact you just got back 100 bucks and lost 900 :)

Anyway still hope to get to ride with ya... :D

Ego, just for the record regarding Hollister, the main pressures exerted on the state were from the existing Hidden Valley housing development reps, and a small group of local (adjacent) San Juan Canyon owners/developers - none were out-of-town that I recall. A State rep early on made some verbal commitments to those people that he probably shouldn't have, and difficulties ensued there, and in the tangled process of environmental review. However, I don't think this type of project scrutiny and politics is unusual - it occurs on just about any major land use issue of any type. Yes, we probably could have gotten more land (I have ridden and walked all the buffer zone areas, not all of it is good trail stuff), but we have gained significant and interesting dry-season riding trails that will help minimize the overuse of other existing areas.

Yes I agree, I admit I came in on the tail end of the whole process so I am not privy to all details as you have been.

I have spoken to some land owners / Farmers that are friends and we have spoken at length on the hills and how they feel. I have swayed one, the other is just a hard core crusty ol guy that wants top dollar for his land, and feels cheated because he can not get what he wants.

After all how much profit cane be gained when your grand parents originally bought the land for 13 cents an acre. Blood suckers :)

We are planning on riding the 6th in the afternoon BC3, Blue one, Heckler will be riding the 11th as well all day.

Througout this whole topic there seems to be agreement on one thing, riding areas are being closed. Most posters seem to realize that loud noise, wheelies and doughnuts on the streets and staging areas and disrespect for other users of the trails result in closures. There is a simple solution for all of this which is use common sense when riding on public property. Public property is exactly that, property for the use of all without harrasment or intimidation by other users. Many people consider us to be a nuisance or a threat to their enjoyment of the trail so anything that we can do to mitigate our impact on other users is a big plus. This is a losing battle in the long run but if we can slow it down at least our kids will have some riding areas.

EGO,

Check out the June issue of City Bike.

There is a very good interview with the out going OHV Commissioner. Look for the "Loud bike riders get over yourself." quote. Buying buffer zones is going to be part of the OHV plan. He also points out how people tend to be very antagonistic via email and mail. When meeting face to face, they tend to work together better.

Check it out! :)

will do thanks

Talk about hitting it on the head, Ud_Luz just did :)

Now for the record I'm all for quite bikes, I enjoy riding a quiter bike more than a loud bike. I think we need to have some standard set and enforced! I don't think we should be riding around on bikes that are 118DB or 110. It's louder than is resonable and it hurts our cause with the undecided part of the population. But....

Is 96 DB the anwser, hell no, things will continue with the same complaints because Joe Red neck will still be at 118 DB in 99% of the country. But in the mean time I will be spending $100's to stay quite, as will you, with no effect on the situation. Sputter sounds like he knows one area that may have the type of agreement I was speaking of, hope it works.

First I feel that pipes that are quite with good performance are possible but not here quite yet. When new equipment laws are implemented in the auto industry there is a phase in to allow manufactures to meet these standards. When they struggle to meet these standards there are pleas made for more time, sometimes granted, sometimes not. It was a curtosy not afford to our industry. Further I'm tired of people telling me I have plenty of power because the only one on the face of the plant that can ride a bike to it's full potential is RC or Reed. You dont' know where or how I ride, I dont' know where or how you ride and I won't tell you that you have plenty of power in a moped either.

The bottom line is I want to see common sense suggestions, rules, laws. No pie in the sky "Less sound=More ground" arguments. The AMA and BRC ect should be telling us "We need to do this so that we share the trail responsibly" No arguments that dropping the DB limit from 103 to 96 is gonna be the savior of our sport, cause it isn't.

What Ud Lud said.

I'm 40 years old. I've had my day, hope to have a few more. It would be nice if my kids could say the same thing in 40 years.

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