All California Riders

So here's what I can add.

When I spoke with the guys at CARB, they told me that it's the manufacture’s responsibility to "register" the bikes that are in compliance. This apparently is rather costly, either from a legal or proof standpoint, more than a charge or fee.

When I spoke with a couple of guys from Yamaha at North American (this was last July) they said the 400/426F was not in compliance with the CARB standard. Nor did they really seem to care to make it so.

In my opinion, it seems that the dirt bike scene is following the same path, as did automobiles, as did road bikes.

A standard is set, (usually based on Southern California smog levels) the manufactures attempt to meet it. Sometimes they can, other times they can't. This becomes a give and take between the guys setting the standard, the manufactures, the dealers associations, and most likely some of clubs and activists.

Therefore the standards go up and down, as does the technology.

In the automotive world, Los Angeles kicked off the need for an emission standard in the late 60s. Let's be thankful they did. The standards went up and down over the next 25 years, and there was a day when the so-called "last V8" rolled off the production line because of this. The entire world was impacted.

Then LA took on leaded fuels, fireplaces, BBQs, lawn mowers, and of course road bikes. Now take a guess where the charge is coming from for alternative fuels? I.e. electric vehicles.

In either case, what's going to happen is that two-strokes will come to a very quick end. Perhaps as early as 03.

The manufactures don't care enough about 2-strokes to try to adapt the technology for the emission needs of California. Since the majority of sales are in this state, (I'm assuming that) the technology will no longer be built. As occurred with the popular RD400 and the likes.

Till then, there will be little stepping-stones like 49 state models and exclusive California models. And phase out programs, and greed/red sticker laws. Then, like autos, they all become the same. Then the standards loosen.

As in California, they have dramatically changed the need for smog checks, (I'm not sure if the rest of you guys have these or not). Mainly because the technology got so good and the majority of the smog is now caused by less than 10% of the vehicles on the road. Old stuff.

So the future of off-road is the four stroke. And the future for off road is EFI, catalytic converters, and vapor controlling fuel systems. And the future will also be lighter bikes with more power.

And 10 years from now, 30% of the OHVs may be electric.

In either case, it's not a matter of opinion to use California as a looking glass into what's going to happen to the rest of the nation. In addition to this, if the production of two-strokes is quickly eliminated, together with phase out programs, you'll quickly see the end of the red/green sticker program, and you may never see it for the rest of the nation.

DaveJ

DaveJ,

While I can sympathize with a desire to improve the enviroment, at some point don't we need to consider how much damage something is doing before we ban it? There isn't anything manmade that can't be eliminated.

The figures you or someone quoted in an earlier post regarding the level of pollutants for an individual OHV, do not take into account miles or usage. Yes, they do pollute more. I ride almost every other weekend, yet in a year only put about 4000 miles on my bikes. Contrast that to my car where I average 30,000 miles. At 7.5 times more emission, I am equal to JUST ONE CAR!

Now consider the cost. A good reason that manufacturers never fought safety, economy, or emission standards was that the Gov't help them sell more cars. How? By building in obselence through making it harder to keep our cars. It also increased their parts and repairs profits as vehicles became more and more complicated.

This is my whole gripe with gov't mandated standards. First, they never consider the cost and benefits of what they implement. They present a very noble cause. Then the end justifies the means. Second, they don't evaluate what they achieve to consider whether it was their regs or outside influences that determined the outcome. Lastly, they codify the process rather than the result. You have to meet their way of doing it rather than just meeting the standard.

Do you know that it doesn't matter if your vehicle passes emission standards if it can't pass the visual inspection? Remove a "critical" part or design something yourself and it is an immediate fail!

Originally posted by DaveJ:

So here's what I can add.

When I spoke with the guys at CARB, they told me that it's the manufacture’s responsibility to "register" the bikes that are in compliance. This apparently is rather costly, either from a legal or proof standpoint, more than a charge or fee.

When I spoke with a couple of guys from Yamaha at North American (this was last July) they said the 400/426F was not in compliance with the CARB standard. Nor did they really seem to care to make it so.

In my opinion, it seems that the dirt bike scene is following the same path, as did automobiles, as did road bikes.

A standard is set, (usually based on Southern California smog levels) the manufactures attempt to meet it. Sometimes they can, other times they can't. This becomes a give and take between the guys setting the standard, the manufactures, the dealers associations, and most likely some of clubs and activists.

Therefore the standards go up and down, as does the technology.

In the automotive world, Los Angeles kicked off the need for an emission standard in the late 60s. Let's be thankful they did. The standards went up and down over the next 25 years, and there was a day when the so-called "last V8" rolled off the production line because of this. The entire world was impacted.

Then LA took on leaded fuels, fireplaces, BBQs, lawn mowers, and of course road bikes. Now take a guess where the charge is coming from for alternative fuels? I.e. electric vehicles.

In either case, what's going to happen is that two-strokes will come to a very quick end. Perhaps as early as 03.

The manufactures don't care enough about 2-strokes to try to adapt the technology for the emission needs of California. Since the majority of sales are in this state, (I'm assuming that) the technology will no longer be built. As occurred with the popular RD400 and the likes.

Till then, there will be little stepping-stones like 49 state models and exclusive California models. And phase out programs, and greed/red sticker laws. Then, like autos, they all become the same. Then the standards loosen.

As in California, they have dramatically changed the need for smog checks, (I'm not sure if the rest of you guys have these or not). Mainly because the technology got so good and the majority of the smog is now caused by less than 10% of the vehicles on the road. Old stuff.

So the future of off-road is the four stroke. And the future for off road is EFI, catalytic converters, and vapor controlling fuel systems. And the future will also be lighter bikes with more power.

And 10 years from now, 30% of the OHVs may be electric.

In either case, it's not a matter of opinion to use California as a looking glass into what's going to happen to the rest of the nation. In addition to this, if the production of two-strokes is quickly eliminated, together with phase out programs, you'll quickly see the end of the red/green sticker program, and you may never see it for the rest of the nation.

DaveJ

I am curious, if I show up to ride in CA with my 96RMX 250 two stroke that has CO plates, can I ride? I seems to me I am legal on the streets, being from out of state, can I ride offroad as if I had a green sticker?

Are old two strokes still green sticker legal?

I hope these ridiculous stickers don't ever make it to the Rockies. Further proof that $hit rolls uphill. We are going to cut off your water supply if you guys persist with this foolishness! No water or electricity, what a great place to live.

Good questions.

The 1 moto to 180 cars is on a per hour basis. Ride the two-stroke for one hour, you created as much emissions as 180 cars buzzing the road ways. That the way the EPA reports it.

And the effect was for bikes manufactured after Jan 97. However, rumor has it their was some revunue issues and politics between the dealer association, the CARB/EPA guys, and the park system. So the DMV went about issuing green stickers until somebody put their foot down. But as mentioned, I still can't figure you what law is being enforced.

For a period of time, the DMV web site told OHV users that green stickers given accidentially would not be re-called. I guess they now stopped that.

As for out of state bikes, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. Just as much as they allowed out of state cars when the autos were getting the treatment. Which means I'm sure you could do the out of state registration trick if you wanted. Don't we all know someone.

That's it. Off to Vegas.

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