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MountainMax

RE: Waterpump Seal Questions

14 posts in this topic

I had coolant down in my oil, and with 7000km on my bike, you guys figured it would be the waterpump seals, I removed the side with the seals in there, and popped out the 2 seals and bearing, however I noticed that both seals were indexed the same way, with the flat part pointing outwards on both, is this correct? I would think the outside one had the flat out, and the inside one had the flat part against the bearing, could they have been installed wrong? or is this correct? the book and pics are not much help here..

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You want each seal lip to face what your sealing. One side lip faces coolant, other side lip faces oil. The flat faces end up facing each other.

How did your impeller shaft look ?

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Well that means one of mine was in wrong, my shaft looks ok, but it slides in and out of the seals very easy.....I hope this is my problem.

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The manual says to put the manufactures markings or numbers inward, that confused me, not sure if they meant facing each other or both inwards towards the motor (like i took it apart)

Im going to clean up the shaft with some fine emery cloth.

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The shaft is cheap, like $18 US. I would replace it and the bearing if I were you. Myself, I just bought seals when I noticed my weep hole leaking. Took it apart to find a heavily grooved shaft- surprise!!! So I replaced the seals and cleaned up the shaft for now, still working, been a couple months around 2000km. But I've now got a new impeller shaft, bearing and seals ready to do any time now when it starts leaking again. Should have just spent the extra $30 the first time because now I will be doing the job soon enough again :busted:

There's a bit more info on it here

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=703925

Just ignore the easy fix idea

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Im going to clean up the shaft with some fine emery cloth.

If you don't replace the shaft, you will be pulling it apart again with a weeping weep hole. Get a new shaft like tribalbc says. Trust us, we have been there many times before.

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Thanks guys, however I have a big problem, I put the two flat parts of the seals facing each other Like was suggested here, and I think that was WRONG. I only had a small mark on my shaft so I cleaned it up with fine emery cloth ( I will replace the shaft and seals again this winter as i have to order them in) anyhow, whan i started up the bike it immidiately pumped the coolant right into the oil. I had to take it apart again and looked at the outter seal and it has a barrel type roll on it that will suck in the coolant intot the oil in the way i put the seal in. I ruined the seal removing it and now im still stuck with no bike. Can someone please verify which way these seals go in, when I took it apart, both flat surfaces were facing outward, but the book and the gentlemen above said for the flat surfaces to face each other, im sure this is wrong........

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Did you push the seals in by hand ?

Did you follow the manual for twisting the impeller shaft when putting it in the new seals ?

I stand by my seal directions :busted:

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can you please post a close up pic of the outter seal with the impeller off please? like i said the seal i installed has barrel rolls inside of it which means it had to go in opposite then the way I installed it. I followed the instructions yes... tapped in the new seal by using the old seals, and the bearing by the outter race like the book says.

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can you please post a close up pic of the outter seal with the impeller off please? like i said the seal i installed has barrel rolls inside of it which means it had to go in opposite then the way I installed it. I followed the instructions yes... tapped in the new seal by using the old seals, and the bearing by the outter race like the book says.

Sorry I don't have any pics. It will be at least a month before I'm in there again.

Are you sure the seal didn't get nicked anywhere ?

I know when I did my countershaft seal the first time my new seal got the tiniest nick and she spewed like a mother. Second time was the charm...

I would get new seals, shaft, bearing and give her another go.

If your shop is far away maybe order a couple sets of seals, they're cheap anyways.

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I understand how frustrating this is, I went through this same problem with my 426. The flat surfaces of the seals face each other. The side of the seal with the cavity should face the media/liquid that you want to keep in its cavity. From your description of the shaft, it should have gone in the trash.... Live and learn, I did the same thing. :thumbsup:

Looking from the rear of the bike.

OIL >(Seal) water Pump (Seal)< Coolant

> shows the cavity of the seal towards the oil in the engine.

< shows the cavity of the seal towards the coolant on the right of the bike.

The seals are very susceptible to rips and tare when you install them, I use a bit of grease on the seal when I TWIST them on the shaft. It also helps if you heat them up a bit before you install them. I just put them in my pocket while I'm pulling things apart, a little heat goes a long way.

Good luck and let us know how it goes. :busted:

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Thanks, I find it strange thought that my seal was installed wrong from factory, and the book is not worded very nice and poor pictures, I switched me seal around facing the lip inwards, and used my bike all day without any oil getting into the crankcase, so im more confused then ever, how can this be if it's wrong.......

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Thanks, I find it strange thought that my seal was installed wrong from factory, and the book is not worded very nice and poor pictures, I switched me seal around facing the lip inwards, and used my bike all day without any oil getting into the crankcase, so im more confused then ever, how can this be if it's wrong.......

The pressure on the seals are much lower than they are rated. The pressure on the coolant side is higher than the crankcase. If you are in cool weather and don't get the motor too too hot then you can run the seal which ever way you want and they will be fine.

Good to hear you got it all sorted out. Enjoy :busted:

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If you have coolant in the oil, let me assure you with near total certainty that the water pump IS NOT at fault. As already noted, the seals go into each seal pocket with the numbers down into the pocket they sit in, and the seal lips facing up so that one lip faces toward the oil in the primary case, and the other faces the coolant in the water pump.

The thing is that there is a space between the two seals that leads to the outside through a hole in the case cover, below and behind the pump cover. It is placed there so that if any of either fluid should leak, it leaks to the outside before it can force its way past the other seal to cross contaminate oil with coolant, or vice versa.

If you have coolant in the oil, it could be coming from the passage leading from the case cover to the crankcase, the passage from the cylinder to the crankcase, the head gasket, or a hole in the head cylinder, or crankcase that allows the transfer of coolant into the oil. Unless someone has deliberately closed off the escape hole, the water pump isn't the culprit.

Having said all that, be certain when dealing with a water pump leak that you check the bearings in the balancer shaft:

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=785425

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