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haydug

Pro-design filter kit

31 posts in this topic

Just picked up my new 09 450, looking at an exhaust for it, 99% sure going with DRD stainless with low headpipe and lower the radiators. Another question is the pro-design filter kit. I have always used twin air on my honda 's, but can pick up one of these for pretty cheap. Any thoughts or anyone use them?

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I went with a no-toil kit today, found them alot cheaper, and can't tell a difference from it to the twin air kit I normally used, which basically just does away with the backfire screen. I thought that is made the throttle response alittle more crisp on the honda.

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At least two dyno tests done by racing teams have shown no gain whatsoever in removing the backfire screens from a YZF.

As far as No-Toil filters go, I don't care much for them, but I haven't looked at one in a while, either. I DO NOT like No-Toil oil in the least, and use Maxima FFT.

Another thing you'll find about the YZF is that the filter is considerably easier to access than some others.

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At least two dyno tests done by racing teams have shown no gain whatsoever in removing the backfire screens from a YZF.

As far as No-Toil filters go, I don't care much for them, but I haven't looked at one in a while, either. I DO NOT like No-Toil oil in the least, and use Maxima FFT.

Another thing you'll find about the YZF is that the filter is considerably easier to access than some others.

What do you think about Twin Air filter oil and cleaner thats what I've been using with a Twin Air filter changed out every ride.

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I have not used either product, but what I like about Maxima FFT is two things:

It is outrageously tacky once the solvents in it dry out, and it stays like that until you wash it out, even for months at a time. I mean gooey, stringy, stick to a wall, La Brea Tar Pit, I don't want to touch it sticky, with a huge appetite for grabbing and holding dirt. If that describes Twin-Air oil, it would be fine with me. No-Toil, by contrast, is never as sticky as FFT to begin with, and drys out in a few days, loosing its tack.

Secondly, and this will sound odd, is the ease of cleaning it. I use a covered bucket of mineral spirits that is reserved for doing filters only, and change it out every 4-6 months. A simple dip and squeeze and they are clean. Hang them out to dry for a day, and oil them the next. (I own 3 filters per bike, so I always have a clean one ready when the old one comes off) This is similar to the Twin-Air system, as I understand it, and IMO is actually simpler and more effective than the No-Toil system.

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At least two dyno tests done by racing teams have shown no gain whatsoever in removing the backfire screens from a YZF.

What about throttle response? Does that show on a dyno test?

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I clean mine basically the same way gray, however after the mineral spirits, I will use simple green and rinse them again with clean water. I've always used twin air , so this will be my first venture on the no toil. I use belray filter oil, and also slightly grease the lip (hard to teach an old dog new tricks). I remember growing up, we used used motor oil for the filter, but cleaned it every ride.

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I see no advantage to them at all.

I am a "Loudmouth" and I have the loudmouth filter kit so I will chime in....on the advantages it has to me over a stock filter:

#1 It does provide a better throttle response than the stock filter that makes the bike feel like it has slightly more power that seems to make the bike pull more in the rpm range. Probably due to no backfire screen, more air intake and the overall design. But it is not earthshattering....unless you are Don Maeda :banana:

#2 The best advantage to me....it makes the typical messy job of filter changes much easier and cleaner. There is no air filter nut to turn, or to deal with. The filter attaches via a clamp that is much easier to tighten/loosen. They also provide a cover to put over the opening of the carb boot to completely seal and clean out the air box - a much better solution that the stock cover by TwinAir & acerbis etc....Your airbox will never be this clean again....just slip the cover on the flange, spray the inside air box with simple green, rinse and 100% clean. Takes 15-20sec and done.

#3 There is absolutely no gap anymore that dirt particles can get into the rubber carb boot a la into the carb

After using this for several months I prefer it to the Stock oem filter system as well as the TwinAir Powerflow system I have on my 03. The design of the filter flange is unique and there never is any concern of anything but air getting to the carb. Filter changes are easier and quicker and cleaner. Is it worth the extra money? (even more if your like me and need extra filter to rotate) that is debateable but like everything else today that is overpriced, in a under performing economy......you make your own choice. :worthy:

And I agree No Toil stinks......

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Gray, I respect your opinion but I've been using No Toil for a while now and have had good results. I generally put a freshly oiled filter in the 1-2 days before I ride so the "dryness" you speak of isn't much of an issue for me.

I don't know if clean up can get any easier than No Toil though. No harsh chemicals and I can use the wash basin in the basement. I used Belray filter oil before this and the only thing that would easily remove that from filters or your hands for that matter is filter cleaner spray or gas.

I also use filter skins as added insurance and love them. Generally I can take off the filter skin and the air filter looks just as clean as when I first put it in.

Although you do live in CA so I can understand why you would want superior dust protection. I spent 4 years in Vegas and know how harsh the desert is on bikes.

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What about throttle response? Does that show on a dyno test?
No, unless the difference is pretty extreme, but removing the screen has no benefit for a YZF except in the imagination of the rider.

066.jpg

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No, unless the difference is pretty extreme, but removing the screen has no benefit for a YZF except in the imagination of the rider.

066.jpg

as is most of the wizbang products we are all so addicted to trying out.....

Great Marketing isn't it?

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No, unless the difference is pretty extreme, but removing the screen has no benefit for a YZF except in the imagination of the rider.

So how are you so sure these kits or removing the screen has no benefit?

Im not sure about the kits at the start of this thread maybe someone else here knows but the flame resistant filter that comes with the Twin Air high flow kit is atleast half the thickness of the standard one on the 08YZ450. This would obviously improve flow.

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I use Twin-Air elements, and my own air flow tests have demonstrated quite clearly that the oiled element is more restrictive than the screen is by a considerable margin. With that, removing the screen cannot improve air flow in the intake tract.

But feel free to do so if you like. It's more money than I want to spend on nothing.

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Grey he is referring to the flame retardent twinair in the powerflow kit - it also has no screen and is thinner than reg Twin air

But wait ... you know I luv good debates

Ah the Great Screen Debate.....

here is some more info to add to the debate.....remember there is no screen in this product.....

From Loudmouths Website.....

This morning we set out to get some real data on paper to support all the “hype” about just how much better the Loud Mouth quick change filter system flowed over stock. Excited and consumed with curiosity about our outstanding Yamaha YZ450F intake, we started taking bets that it would make around 3HP before arriving at the world famous Carl’s Speed Shop in Ormond Beach, Florida. We were pretty confident to see a major increase in performance on the dyno, but nothing prepared us for what we were about to reveal…

We strapped in the white beast and started her up. Running the bike completely bone stock for the first three runs, we were able to establish a base line for comparison. The results showed a maximum of 44HP and 29lb-ft of torque. We than removed the seat and the stock filter cage assembly by loosening the clamp on the intake boot. After doing so, we installed the Loud Mouth and tightened the clamp. Three minutes since the last rev down and we were fired up again. Funny, but who would think that you can put horsepower on your bike faster than it takes to hit the Porta Potty… Fortunately we didn't have to make any jetting adjustments after seeing that the air/fuel mixture was spot on.

Shifting through the gears we could already hear the distinct sound that earned the product its name the “Loud Mouth.” You could just hear it breathing. By the end of the first run we knew we had made power. The time it took for the bike to completely rev out from resting point was significantly less than when we had tested with the stock intake. After a few trials we compared the averages of the results by over lapping the Stock and Modified runs on the dyno sheets. What we found to our amazement was that the Loud Mouth had broadened up the power curve by more than 3HP on average over stock throughout almost the entire RPM range, while peaking out at a maximum of 45HP. Although that’s just +1HP above stock at maximum peak performance, it’s an understatement at the least to say that getting there is really what’s impressive! Furthermore; the torque curve was broadened by 3-4lb-ft on average as well. Looking over the time for which data was recorded within a two second time interval from resting point, we had discovered that the loudmouth had the advantage of delivering 32HP mod to 28HP stock (+5HP), 26lbs-ft mod to 24lbs-ft (+2lb-ft) and it even made up more speed over compared time intervals.

Now I for one am a sceptic on +5 hp. But if i can even get 2hp for a product like this on a dyno or the riders butt dyno result....then I am a little more happy about my expenditure.

Take it for what it is worth... :thumbsup:

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Grey he is referring to the flame retardent twinair in the powerflow kit - it also has no screen and is thinner than reg Twin air
I know that. The inner foam in that element is also a different density, and it comes out roughly the same as far as flow goes.

Until someone other than Loudmouth comes up with similar results, I will continue to ignore their claims.

You'd be lucky to get half a horse from their kit.

(the Loudmouth system) did absolutely nothing for performance or sound, it's just convenient.

Very expensive convenience.

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(quoting Loud Mouth) Fortunately we didn't have to make any jetting adjustments after seeing that the air/fuel mixture was spot on.

I wonder how they saw that...

I have a hard time understanding how the air/fuel mixture could be spot on both times when making such a 'dramatic' change to the incoming airflow with their product. I call BS.

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I wonder how they saw that...

I have a hard time understanding how the air/fuel mixture could be spot on both times when making such a 'dramatic' change to the incoming airflow with their product. I call BS.

Agreed. In cases where the air flow through the intake is simply increased by some influence that does not directly involve the filter or outer intake system, jetting often won't need to be changed.

However, in this case, we are being told that the filter/air boot assembly is a choke point. If that is true, then there would be a pressure drop (a vacuum) created between it and the carb. If the product being promoted then corrects this, it would substantially change the pressure within the carb by reducing the pressure drop across the air filter assembly. Such a change would require that the jetting be changed in order to compensate, UNLESS the jetting was incorrect for the original setup in the first place.

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