frustrated with crappy graphics-need help

[xrracer36]

went to steel city sunday. only good racing was in 125 moto # 1. other than that, it was the usual ricky and bubba show. you can read about it on motocross.com

anyways, that's not what i'm writing about. while there, i went to the fmf rig to "check out their products" (aka pillage free stickers ? ) and saw a box of graphics (fom 00 i think) sitting by their window. i routed through and found a set to fit a wr400f 98-00. then i saw the sign by the box ... $20 !!!!!!!!!!! this graphics kit costs $125 thru dennis kirk (including ceet cover, but i only got the tank graffix)

i now own fmf graphics for the blue beast. can't wait to put them on. i'm not sure how to go about it, though. i had factory effex graphics on it for about a month and a half, and the tank decals bubbled like you would not believe!!!!! i know the tanks on these are thin, but my bro have bud light graphics on his yzf (made by n-style) and they are just fine. the white yellowed a little, but i realize that will happen. back to my point, HAD the factory effex graphics till the cap was not on tight enough during transport and a little (and i mean very little) amount of gas seeped out and rand down the tank. it ate all the color out of the graphics and turned the glue on the back into that gum that comes on the backs of credit cards in the mail. mine is a clarke tank, but i don't think they are made out any different materials which would make the adhesive less effective.i am going to send tham back to feactory effex requesting some type of action, but i did call them regarding the problem and they gave me this long explanation on the correct way to put their graphics on (empty tank and flush, let sit 3 days, clean, apply graphics, let stand empty for like 3-5 more days and then you can ride again) first off, that's rediculous, my bro's graphics were on and he rode the next day ( put on with full tank) and second, they didn't include any directions including these steps with the graphics. and why was the adhesive so crappy????!?!?!? my dad's rm125 has had so much gas spilled over the 99 team graphics (one industries) it's rediculous, and my bro's are holding fine after a couple filling mishaps.

in long form, what i'm asking for in short is any experience anyone has had putting graphics on their blue beast on ways to make them stick without bubbling too much, and ways to make them stand up to the task for which you pay mucho $$$ for.

thanks

racer 36

oh, and does anyone know who makes fmf's graphics for them? i hope it's not factory crappex.

[PumpkinHumper]

I am on my 3rd set of graphics on my 99yz400.

The first set was factory effex. Lasted about 1 year.

The second set was also identical Factory Effex. Lasted about 3 years.

The difference between the two. before installing the second set. I emptied the tank and painted it with some clear plastic primer that I got at Napa. My thinking is that If I can seal the pores in the plastic then the gas vapors cant leach outa the tank and attack the graphics. It seamed to work cause they were on for 3 years. The stock tank is really thin. I think this is part of the problem. My wifes 89kdx tank is really thick and we have no problem with her graphics.

I finally replaced them a week ago with one industries graphics because after 3 years no graphics kit is gonna look good.

[YAMAKAZE]

After problems with N style/Factory FX, I only buy vented graphics from CEET, 2 1/2 years on my WR Tank and still look brand new, even after numerous get off's. They NEVER Bubble....

Bonzai ?

[pedman]

Interesting topic at a perfect time. I just put on my FX graphics about a month and a half ago and already they look bad and are starting to come off. I was really impressed with FX on my XR400 and felt that they would be good to stay with on the WR426. I don't think I'll make it to November.

I saw a graphics kit that had a US flag and eagle on it, but I can not remember who made it. If anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it. ?

[xrracer36]

i know that n-style makes the "patriot" graphics.. a bike flaggy looking things that cover the tanks and shroud. has lady liberty on it. very cool looking. if i hadn't picked up FMF grahpics for $20 i would have shelled out the $60 for the patriots. there are MXDN graphics out too. not sure who makes them. cool looking. look like stock with little red/white/blue flag thing on top of the yamaha.

anybody had any experiece with FMF graphics to know how well they stick/last?

oh, and i seemed to bash factory effex in my original post. their graphics are okay. i should have just bashed yamaha for the stupid-thin tanks. i have factory effex graphics on my xr200 which are made for a 400, but fit the 200 tank with a little trimming, and aside from some peeling around the edges (which is cured when needed by krazy glue) they are holding up just fine, and i put that bike thru a ton of abuse (mud, crashes, muddy crashes, snow, etc...)

is that such a good idea, the whole primer thing? i mean the gas tank has gotta be able to breathe. that just seems like it could do some harm or something. not sure, just theorizing. ?

[PumpkinHumper]

Actually the only breathing your tank should be doing is through the vent tube on the gas cap.

It does, unfortunately, breath through the thin tank material.

I was readin somewere, kinda related to this, were they recomended to store your gas in a metal gas can because the gas vapors cannot escape and therefore your gas willnot become as "stale" I guess is the word Im looking for.

You dont want the vapors seeping out. Any pressure in the tank should be relieved through the gascap vent tube.

[PumpkinHumper]

Ive also heard of some factory guys whiping the tank down with naptha before installing the graphics. Suposidly the naptha helps seal the pors in the tank surface.

Dont know if it works never tried it.

[MN_Kevin]

... the only breathing your tank should be doing is through the vent tube on the gas cap

The ONLY way this will happen, is if you REMOVE the stupid in-line check valve that is in your vent line. It comes as OEM on all Yamaha mx/off-road bikes. ?

This check valve has been the notorious culprit w/ TT'ers gas tanks PRESSURIZING!! since 1998.

>> this check valve allows movement in one direction only >> INTO your tank, NOT out.

Since these bikes ARE NOT fuel injected, a pressurized tank causes carb problems beyond man's comprehension.

DEEP SIX THE STUPID CHECK VALVE!! and ride worry free (unless you hit that 4' diameter tree! )

[xrracer36]

i've had problems with loop outs lately. i'm not sure if i wanna get rid of the check valve. i haven't really had this problem with ol blue. mostly my honda. i been harescrambling it and when you hit hte top of a hillclimb and expect wheel spin and grab 110% traction, you tend to go for a ride if you know what i mean. that xr is all traction. wish i could get that with the power big vlue has and the weight of a 125 ? but back to my point. i just got one of those valves for my 200 cuz everytime i do dump it upside down i end up with gas pouring out the overflow. reconsidering installing it now. a shame, too. it cost like $3.

if you take it outa the line on the 400, will the tank stop bubbling? will it run crisper? what's the advantages and disadvantages of these little things?

[RCannon]

I did not believe you on the check valve...then I checked mine.

Just one question....What were they thinking?

[MN_Kevin]

Advantages, no fuel will dump onto the ground.

>> I FIRMLY believe this is all EPA crap, just like smog crap on your car, oxygenated fuel (which is not good), vapor extractor canisters on the gas pumps (ever see the warning labels DO NOT TOP OFF FUEL TANK, MTBE additives to gasoline.

Disadvantages:

Pressurizing your gas tank. Your carb is gravity fed from the gas tank. As the float drops upon fuel demand, more fuel is gravity fed from your tank.

Now, pressurize your tank. The pressure can overide your float >> FORCING fuel into your carb. Now your carb is PRESSURIZING with fuel. When your throttle is opened, your carb has become a fuel injector (or acts like your accelerator pump per-se). Your intake valves open, and fuel is FORCED, not vacuum dragged, into your engine. Your bike floods out and stalls, or fouls a plug. This is real crummy while trying to clear a double, or hammering through whoops. Just ask Dougie Henry about stalling on a mx track, when he broke both his arms.

Oxygenated fuel can have this effect >>

Riding at higher elevations, when the gasses come out of solution in your fuel (Henry's constant).

Oversize gas tanks w/ the bottom of the tank near your exhaust pipe.

Aftermarket pipes which come closer to your stock fuel tank.

Increasing ambient temperatures causes your fuel to expand.

>> (On my submarine in my Navy days, our Turbine Generator Lube Oil System (TGLO), would go from 155 gallons to 195 gallons when going from 70F to operating temperature of 128F. Obviously this isn't the same, but this is a fine example of expansion due to temp increases).

There have quite a few TT'ers (WR owners) that have been flabbergasted w/ stalling problems, fouling problems and poor running problems. After all the troubleshooting, this stupid check valve become the only thing it could've been.

Guess what?

?IT WAS!!!!!!!

Now, you can decide on your own what you would like to do. I know I spend a lot more time w/ my bike upright, than on the ground. I do plan on keeping it that way too !