Lets get more Camelbak support.

[jschner]

Goto http://www.camelbak.com and take their survey click all the dirtbike magazines and tell them you want more offroad motorsports support and race sponsorships.

Lets work to get them more on our side of the fence. ?

http://www.camelbak.com

[ June 15, 2002: Message edited by: yamaha.dude ]

[lewichris]

cant find no stinkin survey. Hey didnt camlbak give a bunch of money to the greenies so they could advertize in the greenie magazines. I am pretty sure they did. That is why i dint buy a camelbak.

[jschner]

The survey was a pop-up and it popped up when I went there.

Anyway here are some links by riders about Camelbak and the myth about supporting greenies and not us.

http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/jul2000/mhobbs/

http://www.cyclesportshawaii.com/camelbak.htm

http://www.camelbak.com/rec/news.cfm?news_id=36

RMD THREAD

[Bill]

Last year CamelBack sent one of our members employer an email about his use of the "company" computer on the companies time. This was all due to this members letters questioning CamelBacks position in support of the treehugger yet saying, "they are friendly" to the off-roaders.

When a company so large could be so petty as to risk one mans ability to make a living. They can eat crap and die.

Some of the members sent their Camelback back to them and some just ripped off their tags (no advertising). I will NEVER buy another CamelCrack product again.

Instead of asking them for support and to sponsor races, just ask them to quit sponsoring groups like the Sierra Club. Don't belive me? Send them an email and ask about their affiliations with "green" organizations....... hope you have your boots on.

Bill

If I wasn't a moderator, someone would have to moderate this post ?

I just went and searched. You may want to also, to see all the crap that went on.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Bill ]

[lewichris]

you left out the F word in about 3 no, no, no, 4 places.

[Pete_Z]

Just like Bill said, the Camelbakstabbers just about cost a man his job because he had the cajones to tell them what he thought of thier corporate support for the Sierra Club. They have given the nature Nazis cash for years and in doing so have basically s*** on all the off-road riders that have bought Camelbaks. Until I see some major AMA or Blue Ribbon donations from Camelbak they will never get another dime from me. They have bit the hand that feeds - and I hope that they choke on it! P.Z.

[freestyle111]

if you need A DRINK SYSTEM backpack,they sell Blackburn hydration packs at most sporting goods stores.their drinkpacks are avaliable in many different styles,sizes and colors.the best part is their not trying to close down our riding areas.remember every time you buy a CAMELBAK product your donating $ to have your riding area closed.i personnally would rather eat dust all day and go thirsty. before purchasing a camelbak drink system.the greenies have enough money dont support them.boycott all camelbak products and products of any company that is known to donate funds Sierra Club and other greenie foundations.its time we all come together and fight to keep our riding areas open.not just for us but so our children can enjoy the sport that has given us so much pleasure and great memories throughout our lives.ThumperTalk is 10,000 strong and getting stronger everyday.together we can make the difference.Fight to keep the future of are sport alive."DONT SUPPORT CAMELBAK"when your shopping at motorcycle parts and accessories dealers that carry Camelbak products let them know that you will not buy camelbak products

[streich34]

Can you say HYPOCRIT! If Camelbak truly supported off-road recreation, they would not be advertising in the Sierra Club magazine! They can't be on both sides of the fence.

THOR makes a great hydration pack and is less $$$ than Camelsack.

[BFLee]

Now I do not know what to believe. I have been telling people not to buy Camelback because of what I had read on TT. If what Camelback says in the above links is true, then it would appear they used the Sierra Club magazine to advertise products to a viable segment of their customer base one time. You can't really fault them for that, they are a business in a competitve industry. I see a lot of their ads in dirt bike magazines also. If what their pesident says is true then it would seem that they are truly agnostic on any policy issue. Can anybody reference any real source of support by Camelback for the eco-nazi's? Or is this just a bunch of rumors?

I do totally agree with Bill on the matter of Camelback contacting the employer of an individual. Cowardly chickensh*t. If someone makes a libelous statement, you sue them for libel. If not, then STFU.

If you think that I am affiliated with any green org, Camelback, or anything that would put me at odds with the interests of dirt biking, do a search for posts by me. You will probably gather that I am one of the most vehemently anti-government, anti-socialist, anti-green, ready-to-wage-unlimited-electronic-information-warfare MF'r on TT. ?

[neWRiver]

Originally posted by jschner:

...Lets work to get them more on our side of the fence. ?

Well, this is a pretty refreshing perspective. We seemed to have heard an awful lot of complaining about what some companies are doing or not doing and how we should not support them by purchasing their products. Maybe we should direct more of our energy at getting some companies to do more for our sport and then reward them with our buying power when they do.

But why choose Camelbak to carry our torch? At best they seem only bipartisan in their politics and really just trying to sell a product for their own profit. And their product is not even really one that is exclusive to our sport.

What about all the bike manufactures and other third party vendors in the dirtbiking industry? Are they 100% with us? What will they commit to ensure the survival of their industry? Or will they just mold their plastic into some other products when dirtbikers aren't around to buy their fenders? And if they do support our cause, how do we know that they aren't really just protecting their own business interests?

Well, Camelbak has already found themselves in the middle of this thing (probably more indicative of their PR blunders then any real political motivation). Since their product is not really OHV specific, their position could be viewed as at least not completely self preserving if they decided to actively support responsible access for OHV. And with all of the rumors and bad feelings that have been tossed around about them in OHV discussions, a genuine pro-OHV action on their part would certainly get noticed.

I like it.

[freestyle111]

here is your proof <ul type="square">ORCA, the trade association representing the human-powered recreation

business community, recently announced it will launch Businesses for Wilderness

(B4W). Businesses for Wilderness was initiated in collaboration with the Pew

Charitable Trusts and is being supported with a $1 million grant from the

Philadelphia-based philanthropy.

The coalition will be the first project of the newly formed Outdoor

Recreation Foundation. The initiative has three specific goals: "to protect

currently unprotected roadless areas on federal lands, shift the management and

budgetary focus of federal public lands toward protecting natural resources, and

to educate the public and policy makers on the benefits of outdoor recreation."

The Pew Charitable Trusts has long been regarded as one of the nation's

leading advocates for locking out motorized recreation on public lands. Pew's

support of the B4W will not only enable ORCA to expand its role in closing

publicly owned areas, but also, enable ORCA to execute regional and local

campaigns. This grant reaffirms the agenda of Pew's anti-access agenda and takes

the deceptive campaign to a new level.

Sally McCoy, chairperson of the ORCA Board and president of Sierra Designs,

Bill Meadows, president of The Wilderness Society and Sky George, vice president

of marketing for CamelBak and a member of the ORCA board have all publicly

supported B4W.

here is link where you can find all info you need"the proof"

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: freestyle111 ]

[freestyle111]

i cant believe thumpertalk moderaters have not deleted the links to camelbak in this topic.jrschner.are you affiliated with camelbak in any way?why who you repeadtly port a link to their url if you wern't?

[JT1]

Posts like this one are why I read TT. Information is power and I appreciate this forum for providing just that. I am not the most informed but have learned alot since joining TT. I also joined the AMA and Blue Ribbon to help support our industry. I purchased a Camelback several months ago. I think I may have thought twice about buying it if I had read this post. I agree with neWRiver in that we should try to keep our purchases with industry supportive busnisses. I worked for THOR back in the 80's (then known as Hallman Racing). I can tell you back then they were super people to work for and everyone rode dirt bikes (from the Pres. on down). I may be mistaken but I think they were bought out by Parts Unlimited. keep the information coming and thanks....JT

[BFLee]

Originally posted by freestyle111:

here is your proof

Sky George, vice president of marketing for CamelBak and a member of the ORCA board

Is this the connection we were supposed to find?

If so, thanks Freestyle. That is the most solid thing I've seen on this issue and I will continue recommending against Camelback.

Does anybody know anything about the retailer REI? I have friends that buy stuff there. I really suspect that organization would be very green but I don't know.

[freestyle111]

as for REI? if it smells green and looks green it probably is green.i've only been there once but didnt go in.the parking lot was full mostly range rovers and lexus suv's i figured i was dressed for the occassion so i went to sportmart instead.

[jschner]

Thanks for the link freestyle111. I have read it before and it's pretty dated info but still consistent with what Camelbak has stated that they don't contribute to PEW or other organizations.

No I don't work for Camelbak or have anything to do with them except I just purchased one of their products a few months ago.

I personally think Camelbak makes some pretty good hydration systems. So before I bought one I did a good search on the net to try to figure out what was going on. After looking and inquiring for a few weeks and reading all the hype I didn't find one shred of hard evidence Camelbak the company has given any money to any organzation except that they advertised in a magazine and they have an employee that is pro-enviroment.

During the search I found the links I posted plus a few more and I have seen yours before as well. But to me all it really says is where the wacko "Sky" works not that Camelbak actually supports PEW, ORCA or B4W.

With the products Camelbak manufactures like "military" and "motorsports" products I bet they have pro employees for our causes too. Just not as vocal as bark sniffer "SKY". I bet they have a few more like "SKY" as well.

OTOH, hand Camelbak supports our causes indirectly through advertising and now sponsorships. My only purpose for this thread was to try to get more of Camelbak's indirect support.

If you still think we don't need their support then that's fine. I can give a rats behind if they go out of business even though I like their products. But I know you would agree they have a fine product and every advertising dollar spent on our side is one less dollar spent in any other market they may have that my not be on our side. If we get more of their dollars we win two fold. If we don't we lose two fold.

neW. - I agree with you. We can do a lot of work in a lot of areas. But when I saw the Camelbak survey on their site mentioning dirtbike friendly magazines I thought this was too easy with results that we could possibly see within a few months.

[Bill]

I know ?

Bill

[freestyle111]

jhchner,i dont think camelbaks products are anything special.blackburn sells drink systems in same styles and sizes and i know my blackburn system works just great.does your camel back do anything special that other systems dont?i cant imagine it does,but ive never tried a camelbak product so i cant say for sure.this is america so you are free to say and support who you please if you chose camelbak i cant stop you.all i can do is hope you choke on the hose.by filling out there survey all you are doing is giving them free info on where they should advertise.what has camelbak ever given to any of us free?please dont fill out there survey

[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: freestyle111 ]

[neWRiver]

Jeez, freestyle111, I'm glad to see you believe in the american ideals. Just not sure where the "hope you choke" part fits in.

I actually don't consider it so much a freedom to speak out about and fight for what you believe, I consider it more of a responsibility. With that comes the assumption that you do your homework. Comparing a product you've tried to one you haven't is not much of a basis for a fair evaluation (although I do appreciate that you can recommend what you believe is a quality product as an alternative).

Also, driving through a retailers parking lot is hardly an informed position from which to classify them as "green" or "smells green". Put on a clean shirt and go inside to check it out before you pass judgement. Being affluent and driving expensive SUV's doesn't necessarily make people greenies. Not that I know anything at all about REI's politics. Come to think of it, I don't know anything at all about "sportmart" politics either.

[freestyle111]

jschner,if you could give a rats behind if camelbak goes out of business why have you posted so many url links to them and there products.i search your post and you do a awful lot of advertising for camelbak on thumpertalk.including what they models ,cheapest place to buy,there different functions.im convinced your denying any affiliation with camelbak is like camelbak denying giving funds to sierra club.when do the lies end.