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MathProf

NueTech Tubliss Review

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I race a 08 YZ 250X in enduros in the "A" class.

I bought the 21" NueTech Tubliss which was the only one available. I replaced a super heavy duty Michelin tube.

Good things:

1. MUCH better front grip. The front end has always been loose in turns, but now the front stays put and the back wanders. 11lbs worked great.

2. Thanks to reduction in rotating mass the front brake has better stopping power. I was considering an over-size disc until I installed the Tubliss.

3. The front follows the ground better and almost seems softer in the first couple inches.

4.There seems to be less pounding passed through the bars to my arms.

5. No risk of pinching a perfectly good tube on installation.

6. Quicker tire changes.

Less Good:

1. They suggest a new tire with an new Tubliss. I installed a "one race" Michelin and there was a slow leak. The indentations from the old rim lock creates a space for the air to leak out. I think that for racers that switch between practice and race tires, you may spend some extra time lining up the rimlock markings with the rimlocks.

I will be the first in line to get a 19" for the rear.

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I don't follow the logic of how a little less rotating mass helps braking. Most of the force against which the brake pads work has to do with the momentum of the bike motion which is a HECK of a lot more than a few pounds of mass from the symmetrically-rotating tube

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I don't follow the logic of how a little less rotating mass helps braking. Most of the force against which the brake pads work has to do with the momentum of the bike motion which is a HECK of a lot more than a few pounds of mass from the symmetrically-rotating tube

Cut him a little slack there Yamajeb.

He may not have his physics completely sorted, but it was more a perception and/or theory on his part than a postulation of fact.

There would be a reduction in circumferential rotating mass and the momentum that mass carries... so that's the logic he went with and there is some validity to the logic.

I have no doubt that he felt 'something' regarding an improvement in braking performance... why make something like that up?

It may be nothing more that anecdotal, and have more to do with the tire change, but who knows?

Unless you want to sit down and do the math, (and there's a good amount of math there too) I'd be inclined to take 'MathProf' at his word. (Is that a coincedence or what? :thumbsup: )

At least that's my take on it.

C

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I don't follow the logic of how a little less rotating mass helps braking. Most of the force against which the brake pads work has to do with the momentum of the bike motion which is a HECK of a lot more than a few pounds of mass from the symmetrically-rotating tube

you sure about that? Less mass means less inertia. When you break you are stopping the forward mass of the bike and the rotating inertia of the wheel. The less rotating mass will improve all aspects of the bike. Breaking will be improved by less rotating mass your pads will be able to stop the forward momentum of the bike instead of slowing down the wheel... physics 101 baby

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I'm not great with physics but I do know something about the moment of inertia.

Given the same rotating speed and radius, greater weight will require more effort to stop the rotation.

That is what I was saying and I did notice better braking.

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I have the 21" Tubliss just waiting to go on my WR 290F, but I had just put on a new front tire. So, I will wait until I wear it out and go with a totally new front system. I can't wait to see if it makes the difference you saw.

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I wasn't trying to accuse anybody of making anything up.

My point was that the reduction in mass of a tube doesn't compare to the weight of the whole package . . . even WITH the effect of the inertia created by the rotating wheel. Here's what Nuetech says about the effect:

"Experts say that eliminating a pound of rotating unsprung weight is equivalent to dropping 5 pounds of static weight!"

So let's assume you lose 2 pounds overall with a net effect of 10 pounds. How much is 10 pounds compared to the overall weight that the brakes are trying to slow/stop? 230lb bike + 175lb person = 405lb total, so 10 pounds is about 2.5%.

Physics 101

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every pound helps. As well the rider is not a static weight so 4.5% that is a noticable diference.

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Where do you get 4.5%?

No, the rider does not have to be a static weight (good riders use that to their advantage). How do you think that would change things?

Every pound DOES help - for a variety of reasons. Like - how about acceleration? Wouldn't that be noticeable as well?

Hey, I didn't mean to hijack the thread or marginalize the review (or the reviewer). I wasn't suggesting that MathProf didn't actually feel improved braking ; rather, I was only challenging the notion that reduced inertia from the missing weight of something as light as a tire tube could impact braking enough to make it very noticeable. I certainly don't consider myself to be a subject matter expert on these types of things but it just doesn't jive - I was hoping that someone could prove me wrong.

It sounds like this could be a great product and I'm certainly one looking out for such things. Front grip improvement? That's awesome. In fact, perhaps better front tire grip is contributing to the braking improvement . . . ?

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Thanks for the review, MathProf. I have the 21" Tubliss ready to go on - pretty slick setup they've got there. Good tip on using a new tire, you probably saved me some disappointment. I'll order up a new front to use with the Tubliss. I've been wanting to try a Pirelli Scorpion Pro anyway so that will work out fine.

One question - what do you do about punctures? Can you repair the inside of the tire using a patch kit like you would a tube, only apply the patch to the inside of the tire? Maybe use a plug kit? I suppose you could carry a spare tube to use in case you got an unrepairable hole or gash or something.

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Hey, I didn't mean to hijack the thread or marginalize the review (or the reviewer).

Lol... you certainly are doing a pretty good job at it!:thumbsup:

I think you guys are really missing the main advantage for us off-road riders. The

biggest advantage I can see with a tubeless tire is the ability to blast through

rocky terrain without the worry of getting a pinch flat. Also, in those rocky rides/

races, you won't have to run 16+ psi.

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Does the manufacturer list a specified minimum allowable psi for this system?

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There is actually a tube, it's a very small diameter high pressure tube that sits down in the rim well and presses the tire bead against the rim. It's valve still comes through the rim and seals the spoke area off so air doesn't leak out through the spoke nipples. At another location is the "rim lock" and it incorporates a straight through valve so you can pump air into the tire carcass. So the Tubliss system actually uses two valves. One to pump the bead lock tube, and one to pump the normal tire pressure. If the tire spun on the rim, either one of those valves might be damaged.

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Why would a rim lock be needed if there is no tube?
There is actually a tube, it's a very small diameter high pressure tube that sits down in the rim well and presses the tire bead against the rim. It's valve still comes through the rim and seals the spoke area off so air doesn't leak out through the spoke nipples. At another location is the "rim lock" and it incorporates a straight through valve so you can pump air into the tire carcass. So the Tubliss system actually uses two valves. One to pump the bead lock tube, and one to pump the normal tire pressure. If the tire spun on the rim, either one of those valves might be damaged.

Even if there was nothing in the rims holes except plugs to seal in the air, the rimlocks would be needed to prevent the wheels from spinning in the tires, I would think...

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Thought the point of a rimlock was to keep the tube from spinning and shearing off the valve stem... if there is no tube not sure it would matter. Do the trials guys use tubes in the rear? Most of those do not have tubes...

nobrakes - did not realize there was a tube still being used.

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Good review. I've been looking at these. Keep the feedback coming! Easier tire changes, really, I never woulda guessed.

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Thought the point of a rimlock was to keep the tube from spinning and shearing off the valve stem... if there is no tube not sure it would matter. Do the trials guys use tubes in the rear? Most of those do not have tubes...

You may well be correct, I had always thought the purpose of the rimlock was to prevent the tire from free spinning on the rim under hard acceleration and/or hard braking. If that were to happen, it would definitely be prone to spinning the tube with it...:thumbsup:

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I race a 08 YZ 250X in enduros in the "A" class.

I bought the 21" NueTech Tubliss which was the only one available. I replaced a super heavy duty Michelin tube.

Good things:

1. MUCH better front grip. The front end has always been loose in turns, but now the front stays put and the back wanders. 11lbs worked great.

2. Thanks to reduction in rotating mass the front brake has better stopping power. I was considering an over-size disc until I installed the Tubliss.

3. The front follows the ground better and almost seems softer in the first couple inches.

4.There seems to be less pounding passed through the bars to my arms.

5. No risk of pinching a perfectly good tube on installation.

6. Quicker tire changes.

Less Good:

1. They suggest a new tire with an new Tubliss. I installed a "one race" Michelin and there was a slow leak. The indentations from the old rim lock creates a space for the air to leak out. I think that for racers that switch between practice and race tires, you may spend some extra time lining up the rimlock markings with the rimlocks.

I will be the first in line to get a 19" for the rear.

+1! I have the 19" rear and everything that I could tell; you told it! Execept that since that it is at the back I think that there is a bit more acceleration but since that there is a leak around 2 or 3 spokes I need to check tire pressure everytime but this is not a big problem!

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