Any suggestions on enduro computers???

I am ready to start keeping time on enduros and am asking for some tested opinions on computers out there. I have looked into ICO and Watchdog 2000. My Panoram, watch, and roll chart are ok, but I'd like to step it up. Any suggestions???

I'm a big ICO fan. I have the Checkmate, actually won this one and the Procomp. If I had to buy a new one I would be happy with the cheaper Procomp. Excellent products and I'm happy with how they work.

I have a almost new watchdog I might be willing to trade.

if you really want to step it up why not get GPS.hopefully within next couple years we will be able to use gps instead of rollchart for race or dualsport navigating.it would be great to just have them plug in and download map on your gps instead of handing you a 10ft.strip of paper that will most likely get all boundup inside your rollchart holder causing grief everytime you try and turn rollchart during ride.

Thanks for the inputs. I was talking to a friend at the shop today and he really went into some of the rules and lingo that I haven't heard before. From my research and conversations, I need to completely know the rules and tricks before I plug a 'puter in, don't you think???

What kind of trade are you thinking for the Watchdog, Levy1?

Shameless plug below. Site watchers beware!

The Big Bear Trail Riders will be putting on the Annual Big Bear Run the weekend of August 10th and 11th. This is an AMA District 37 Dual Sport event out of Big Bear California.

. The reason for the shamless plug is this event will be fully GPS'ed and available for download at signup by yours truely, zaknavage, GPS geek, Big Bear Trail Riders. We will have data cables availble for GARMIN GPS units. So it will be a plug in and download operation. If you run another make of GPS be sure to bring your 9-Pin RS-232 data cable with you to sign up. The club has communication software for almost every GPS made but not the cables.

The last two years the ball buster Saturday ride has been GPS'ed but never advertised. Hopefully the district event flyer will proudly show GPS data will be available this year. The club does try to put on a challenging but not impossible event for Saturday. In the past two years only about 1/3 of the entrants hit all the check points and get the finisher plaque.

Some folks claim this GPS technology is the thing of the future for dual sport riding. In reality all this really does is turn you GPS into an electronic roll chart for this event.

zaknavage,thanks for info.its good to here gps's will be used in ama sanctioned event.i hate rollcharts they are a pain to use and $25ea. is ripoff.i think there's a lot of riders who would rather put that $25 towards a gps.its much better investment

Very cool! I haven't heard anything about a GPS enduro route tracker. Is it as accurate as the conventional way? Will there always have to be a download station to get the trail info?

i think the biggest benefit of using a gps instead of rollchart& odometer to navigate during race or dualsport would be if you missed a turn and had to backtrack gps would automatically reset to correct location.anyone who has used rollchart w/odo knows what a pain it is to navigate once you have made mistake that caused your mileage be off from rollchart.

Keener,

I belong to a fairly large enduro club where we run our own events monthly and send 20-25 riders to AMA events here in So Cal. Most of our best timekeepers have suggested the following:

1. Learn with the manual method first (rollchart, odo, and clock or watch). Use until comfortable with the concepts. There is no substitute for that experience, according to the best timekeepers we have.

2. Go to whatever computer you can afford that identifies possibles (Panoram is good 1st step, but does not id possibles). They range from $100 used Procomps to $445 new Checkmates and everything in between.

Most club members run Procomp, the best timekeepers run two or more and keep them in different modes. Many people also swear by Checkmate as well. Some still run roll chart just in case computer batteries die or something unplugs itself, some just run two computers.

I have taken this advice and now I am the proud owner of a used Procomp (it works great so far). The two best things are the late/early feature, and the distance to next possible feature. Especially when the speeds are cranked up high, these allow you to quickly get the info you need to avoid a burned check.

Dan

PS: I only dropped 20 seconds at our last club event. Not bad for an enduro rookie. I'm an old desert racer. My brain still sometimes thinks the first guy there wins.

I own a good GPS, not sure what good it is for enduro racing..................

Buy a ICO procomp or checkmate. Best in the business. I don't even run rollcharts anymore, just the procomp.

have you ever used rollchart in enduro?ROLLCHART show distance between each turn and you negotiate that distance with odomter.complete course has various reset points which allow rider to reset odometer and rollchart back to zero for navigating next section of course.if you used gps it would have be programed by officials organizing race.they would program each turn as waypoint.your gps will automatically calculate distance and direction to each of these waypoints.gps has same features bike computer uses.accumulated distance,total distance,speed,accumulated time.the big difference would be if you pass a turn or miss a resett point with rollchart you have to calculate distance of your mistake and + or - that amount from odometer reading and rollchart directions until you reach the next reset point.with a gps if you miss turn and have to go back the distance of mistake wont be a factor because gps calculates the distance between each waypoint using gobal positioning.example.rollchart 2miles go left 3 miles turn right 7miles turn left if you missed rt.turn at 3 miles and went 3/4 miles brfore you turn around and travel back to turn you would have to subtract 1 1/2 miles off odometer mileage for each of rollcharts references till you reach next rest,so instead of next left at 7 miles it would be left at 8 1/2 miles ect....using gps[global positioning]if you made same mistake and had to go back 3\4 miles to correct waypoint[turn]it would automatically recalculated distance back to proper amount to next waypoint.distance from waypoint to waypoint will away stay the same.but if you get lost between those points the distance you traveled will change.odometer doesnt know where it actually going it only know how far it actually gone.the gps know how far it gone and exactly where its at.

[ May 21, 2002: Message edited by: freestyle111 ]

The fine points here is a GPS better than a full on enduro computer. My feeling is no....a GPS does not have all the timekeeping bells and whistles of an enduro computer. The GPS can tell you how far to the next waypoint. The art of enduro riding is time keeping and knowing only the distance isn't enought enough information to zero the checkpoint.

I can agree that a GPS is better than a roll chart and a mechanical odometer. Providing the club has the fully routed the course and downloaded it to your GPS.

Bottom line is that a course designed to be navigated with a gps is best ridden using a gps. Enduros are designed to be ridden without knowledge of where your "waypoints" are. Checks are mostly unknown, and you have to hit them at the right time, not the right mileage. Since speed average is one key and check time is the other, a device that keeps track of those, plus resets, plus any controls using existing rules is probably the best choice. Hence, the enduro computer. GPS is, however, ideal for an event that is not marked with ribbon, and one that requires you to arrive at a certain point based on mileage and location instead of time. It is also perfect for laying out an enduro course for exactly those reasons. If you want to know what everyone is using, go to the next AMA enduro in your area and stand near the start line. Just check out what most riders are using...that's probably a good indication. Good luck in your search.

Dan

dan i agree that using gps in a timed enduro isnt the best choice.if you look at my post i never suggested it should be used in that type of event.if he already has a panoram and wants to move up a step in technology a gps is a good choice.

if you really want to step it up why not get GPS.hopefully within next couple years we will be able to use gps instead of rollchart for race or dualsport navigating.it would be great to just have them plug in and download map on your gps instead of handing you a 10ft.strip of paper that will most likely get all boundup inside your rollchart holder causing grief everytime you try and turn rollchart during ride.

[ May 21, 2002: Message edited by: freestyle111 ]

I agree with Buckholz about a GPS for Enduro use. The speed changes and checkpoints require some specialized functions that at GPS can't quite duplicate.

My Garmin GPS III Plus can give you an average speed since your last odometer reset. But every speed change would require an odo reset and performing this GPS operation while fully wicked through the whoops is not possible. Unless you're comfortable riding one handed and looking at a LCD display only slightly larger than a postage stamp while pressing buttons smaller than pencil erasers. :)

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