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Wes Woodin

Zip Ty vs. R&D Powerbowl

71 posts in this topic

The "Zip-Ty Mod" is a modification to the carburetor's main air and fuel circuits that alters both the droplet size of the atomized fuel and the "pattern" of the fuel as it enters the air stream. It seems to be more effective on some models than on others, but in the late ('06 and up) YZ450's, it makes quite a difference. It does not add much to WOT power, but part throttle performance and responsiveness is improved to a remarkable degree. The engine just feels sharper throughout the range. The mod includes work on the accelerator pump, and stumbling on opening the throttle is virtually eliminated.

The Power Bowl is included with the Zip-Ty mod as an optional upgrade for an additional charge. It purports to offer a variety of things that I'm frankly not certain that it can deliver. It apparently claims to be able to eliminate problems caused by fuel sloshing. I haven't had any that I'm aware of, but that only means so much.

One thing it does offer is some needed improvements to the accelerator pump check valves to make them less erratic. And there is an adjustable leak jet, but the value of this is debatable. It definitely would make the initial fine tuning of the accelerator pump circuit faster to complete, but after it's done, there's little reason to ever change the leak jet again. In any case, it encourages the use of the leak jet as a substitute for other, more correct means of tuning the AP circuit.

At a basic price of $100 or so, the Zip-Ty mod is one of the best values you will find in performance mods for your YZ450. The power bowl costs twice as much and I don't see that it offers me anything that I need to have at all. If it were me, I would definitely do the Zip-Ty mod, and then see if I thought the bike needed anything else after that.

I understand that Zip-Ty themselves use the bowl on their own bikes. You can assume that they see some benefit in it. Maybe they would be the ones to ask. I see it this way. Compared to the things you can spend money on, you'll spend $100 the carb mod by itself to get $2-300 worth of gain; a bargain. The bowl, IMO, asks you to spend $200 to get about $50 worth of benefit. ZT can afford to get whatever gains they can at more or less any price, and if they don't, at the level at which they compete, their competition will. I have both the luxury and the necessity to be more frugal.

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I would like to add that i have personally tried a powerbowl on a 06 yz 250f. It was garbage. So are the ACC pump covers i have tried. If these things were so good, how come the factory bikes arent running them? I have had the chance to examine and work on a few of Yamahas factory bikes. We get them every year when the riders turn them in and the are auctioned off by Yamaha Motor Corp. Yhis past eweek we got two of David Vuillemins 06 Yz 450's. The only apparent thing that had been removed was the works suspension. It had the works radiators still on it along with a bunch of other goodies. Guess what? The carburetor was all stock OEM parts. The bike had an FMF 4.1/ TI powerbomb header and the jetting they were using for the race fuel was 170 main, 45 pilot/45 leak..... All written on the float bowl with a sharpie.......

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I would like to add that i have personally tried a powerbowl on a 06 yz 250f. It was garbage. So are the ACC pump covers i have tried. If these things were so good, how come the factory bikes arent running them? .

Todd please explain why your experience with the powerbowl was garbage? Although I do not have one - I know several riders that do and they luv theirs. The adjustability is very nice and the bog is reduced. In conjunction with the Zipty Mod, which BTW kicks OEM stock carb setup @$$, this should be the ideal set up for a carb and maximum performance. There is a real reason why Zipty uses these and recommends...and it aint just for more revenue.

I also have to reply to your statement regarding why factory bikes do not use them or the assumption that aftermkt is not as good as Factory.

It kills me that their seems to be a group of riders that assume that the oem equipment on bikes is the best out there. More power to you all, but I totally disagree....OEM bikes are made for the masses. This is why the spring rates are what they are and set up is what it is. The Factory teams totally tweak a stock bike and add their secret stuff to including the suspension.

They do not use some of this stuff because it would break the "mode of operenda" for a team like Honda or Yami to use. It also adds more time and complexity for testing. Although teams like KTM do use these. If you think that Team Yamaha uses a totally stock Carb w/o any modifications....this is your opinion. I remember talking to Brian Kenny who was Tim Ferrys mechanic several years ago. He came to the conclusion very early on that the OEM Stock 426 carb needed help to enhance throttle response and to help rid the bike of the dreaded bog.......and this mod was created by a factory Yami mechanic....and it is called the BK Mod. Team Yamaha has been using a version of the AP mod for years. :banghead:

The ACC covers work - but they are very limited to what they can accomplish - and they are not just plug and play parts. You must tweak the jetting and the AP pump squirt duration in order to see any enhancement and it does not compare to the ZipTy mod.

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I would like to add that i have personally tried a powerbowl on a 06 yz 250f. It was garbage. So are the ACC pump covers i have tried. If these things were so good, how come the factory bikes arent running them? I have had the chance to examine and work on a few of Yamahas factory bikes. We get them every year when the riders turn them in and the are auctioned off by Yamaha Motor Corp. Yhis past eweek we got two of David Vuillemins 06 Yz 450's. The only apparent thing that had been removed was the works suspension. It had the works radiators still on it along with a bunch of other goodies. Guess what? The carburetor was all stock OEM parts. The bike had an FMF 4.1/ TI powerbomb header and the jetting they were using for the race fuel was 170 main, 45 pilot/45 leak..... All written on the float bowl with a sharpie.......

I have an R&D bowl on my KTM and OMG what a difference in low end bog, WOT bog and going through the whoops sections. As far as you getting factory bikes to auction off. do you really think your getting the carb they had on the bike when they were raceing it? NO those bikes are pretty much put back to stock. In road racing, I have friends who have purchased ex factory SS bikes and they know for a fact that theyre not getting the exact same engine the AMA pro rider was running. The factories dont want the general public to see their tricks. I guarantee when Yamaha gets their bikes, they put the nice new carb in a box, put on the carb theyre going to race with and when they go to sell it, take the original carb back out of the box and toss it back on the bike

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I have an R&D bowl on my KTM and OMG what a difference in low end bog, WOT bog and going through the whoops sections. As far as you getting factory bikes to auction off. do you really think your getting the carb they had on the bike when they were raceing it? NO those bikes are pretty much put back to stock. In road racing, I have friends who have purchased ex factory SS bikes and they know for a fact that theyre not getting the exact same engine the AMA pro rider was running. The factories dont want the general public to see their tricks. I guarantee when Yamaha gets their bikes, they put the nice new carb in a box, put on the carb theyre going to race with and when they go to sell it, take the original carb back out of the box and toss it back on the bike

I am glad the post went this way, however the original question is weather the Zip Ty Bowl is the same as or better that the R&D Powerbowl. And I must agree: The factories do take off most all of the goodies when they sell.

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Is there a difference between these two?

to the original question.....

yes there is a difference

ZipTy mod is a complete carb cleaning, AP wired/squirt duration set optimized, emulsion tube added, corrected jetting, and ZipTy's secrets they wont elaborate on, and their trick AP mod bracket

result - more horsepower , quicker throttle response, no bog

R&D Floatbowl is a replacement bowl that has a integrated adjustable leak jet. better fule flow characteristics.

Using both will give you a carb that is highly tunable and and bike with tremendously better throttle response, and more power:thumbsup:

There is a ton of info on both and it is all available via search or call Steve at ZipTy and email Mike Dean???I think this is his name, at R&D - a site sponser

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Just an fyi... My 2008 carb was returned without the ap linkage. I guess ZipTy is not adding the linkage to '08 carbs since Yamaha has stiffened up the spring this year.

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I have an R&D bowl on my KTM and OMG what a difference in low end bog, WOT bog and going through the whoops sections. As far as you getting factory bikes to auction off. do you really think your getting the carb they had on the bike when they were raceing it? NO those bikes are pretty much put back to stock. In road racing, I have friends who have purchased ex factory SS bikes and they know for a fact that theyre not getting the exact same engine the AMA pro rider was running. The factories dont want the general public to see their tricks. I guarantee when Yamaha gets their bikes, they put the nice new carb in a box, put on the carb theyre going to race with and when they go to sell it, take the original carb back out of the box and toss it back on the bike

Certain things are put back to stock and other things are left. I know for a FACT that the carburetor was the one they used because of the jetting and the pipe they left on it. Why would they waste there time pulling off an FMF exhaust which they are given hundreds of. They do pull off the suspension and put the stock stuff back on as evidenced by the bikes last 6 VIN #'s written on both fork tubes and the shock body. Every bike i see from the auction is different for that matter....We got one of Reeds practice bikes a few months ago. The only thing left on this bike was some trick radiators. All suspension was put back to stock and a stock pipe thrown on it. Guess what? The carburetor was Stock and full of race gas....jetting was way off for a stock pipe also. You know....whatever.......believe what you wan't....I know better first hand or i wouldn't even be saying anything. As far as the powerbowl thing goes??? I am happy its working for you and anyone else who its actually working for. I'm just posting an experience with one on a 250f.

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Just an fyi... My 2008 carb was returned without the ap linkage. I guess ZipTy is not adding the linkage to '08 carbs since Yamaha has stiffened up the spring this year.

Thats interesting.

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Todd please explain why your experience with the powerbowl was garbage? Although I do not have one - I know several riders that do and they luv theirs. The adjustability is very nice and the bog is reduced. In conjunction with the Zipty Mod, which BTW kicks OEM stock carb setup @$$, this should be the ideal set up for a carb and maximum performance. There is a real reason why Zipty uses these and recommends...and it aint just for more revenue.

I also have to reply to your statement regarding why factory bikes do not use them or the assumption that aftermkt is not as good as Factory.

It kills me that their seems to be a group of riders that assume that the oem equipment on bikes is the best out there. More power to you all, but I totally disagree....OEM bikes are made for the masses. This is why the spring rates are what they are and set up is what it is. The Factory teams totally tweak a stock bike and add their secret stuff to including the suspension.

They do not use some of this stuff because it would break the "mode of operenda" for a team like Honda or Yami to use. It also adds more time and complexity for testing. Although teams like KTM do use these. If you think that Team Yamaha uses a totally stock Carb w/o any modifications....this is your opinion. I remember talking to Brian Kenny who was Tim Ferrys mechanic several years ago. He came to the conclusion very early on that the OEM Stock 426 carb needed help to enhance throttle response and to help rid the bike of the dreaded bog.......and this mod was created by a factory Yami mechanic....and it is called the BK Mod. Team Yamaha has been using a version of the AP mod for years. :banghead:

The ACC covers work - but they are very limited to what they can accomplish - and they are not just plug and play parts. You must tweak the jetting and the AP pump squirt duration in order to see any enhancement and it does not compare to the ZipTy mod.

GA, I was just reporting one experience I had with one on a 06 250f. I just rode the thing about six laps on a track. I also rode that same bike with the stock bowl and it was a hundred times better. Who knows? maybe it wasn't set up right?....although the guy said it was setup the way factory R&D told him to. As for your statement about the mods for the older design 400 or 426 carbs? Yeah those things needed alot more help than the current ones. All i know is I have ZERO complaints with my 06 or 08 carb. Stock...but re-jetted for the pipes. And....I was also only reporting what i observed when seeing and having to re-jet these Auction bikes from Yamaha. If you could have seen these bikes in person you would understand....I know it.:busted:

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The R & D powerbowl is one of the best mods that I have done to my bike. I bought it directly from Dean @ the track and paid $100, that include Dean tuning and jetting my bike.

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The R & D powerbowl is one of the best mods that I have done to my bike. I bought it directly from Dean @ the track and paid $100, that include Dean tuning and jetting my bike.

Chilio, I wan't to ride your bike at Glen Helen this weekend.!!!!!

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I am glad the post went this way, however the original question is weather the Zip Ty Bowl is the same as or better that the R&D Powerbowl. And I must agree: The factories do take off most all of the goodies when they sell.

They take off SOME of the stuff... And how do YOU know what they do. I see this stuff first hand so i'm not just talking to talk.

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I have the whole shebang on my 450 - R&D float bowl, Zip Ty carb mod, and the new billet AP linkage that Zip Ty makes which replaces the old style "wiring" of the AP linkage. all I can say is that I can't even get my bike to bog when it's on the stand and I'm hitting the gas - which in most cases would make even a really good setup bog.

I find it amusing when someone just makes a blanket statement like "it's garbage" without elaborating about the setup , the circumstances, and exactly WHY they did't like it. No different than someone saying "Yamahas are garbage". The carb mods and the float bowl are not miracle cure-alls for all carb problems. A carb that is not jetted properly will not run good no matter what do-dads you put on it. These things ENHANCE a properly tuned carb by helping very specific problem areas - they are NOT a magic self-adjusting automatic carb tuning device.

Just saying you rode a friends bike which was set up the way R&D told him means NOTHING. R&D cannot remotely jet every bike out there - he might recommend suggested starting points, but that's about it. Every bike is a little different, is ridden at different altitudes and humidity/temperature levels, and if there are ANY mods at all, that requires even more tuning of the carb's jets.

If a bike is not running well because it's not jetted corrctly, no trinket is gonna cure that. A properly jetted stock carb will run VERY well. A properly jetted carb with the mods spoken about here will run just a little better, and that's what we're after.

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I have the whole shebang on my 450 - R&D float bowl, Zip Ty carb mod, and the new billet AP linkage that Zip Ty makes which replaces the old style "wiring" of the AP linkage. all I can say is that I can't even get my bike to bog when it's on the stand and I'm hitting the gas - which in most cases would make even a really good setup bog.

I find it amusing when someone just makes a blanket statement like "it's garbage" without elaborating about the setup , the circumstances, and exactly WHY they did't like it. No different than someone saying "Yamahas are garbage". The carb mods and the float bowl are not miracle cure-alls for all carb problems. A carb that is not jetted properly will not run good no matter what do-dads you put on it. These things ENHANCE a properly tuned carb by helping very specific problem areas - they are NOT a magic self-adjusting automatic carb tuning device.

Just saying you rode a friends bike which was set up the way R&D told him means NOTHING. R&D cannot remotely jet every bike out there - he might recommend suggested starting points, but that's about it. Every bike is a little different, is ridden at different altitudes and humidity/temperature levels, and if there are ANY mods at all, that requires even more tuning of the carb's jets.

If a bike is not running well because it's not jetted corrctly, no trinket is gonna cure that. A properly jetted stock carb will run VERY well. A properly jetted carb with the mods spoken about here will run just a little better, and that's what we're after.

Go back and re-read the post....I was reporting on how it worked on an 06 250f. If anything it should have been posted in the 250f forum. Hopefully i'll meet up with CHILIO this weekend at Glen Helen and try his set up out. I'm very curious to compare his to mine.

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Chilio, I wan't to ride your bike at Glen Helen this weekend.!!!!!

Just look me up you are more than welcome to take it for a spin!

I'm going to maybe ride there on Thursday and will be racing on Sunday for sure, maybe Saturday too.

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Certain things are put back to stock and other things are left. I know for a FACT that the carburetor was the one they used because of the jetting and the pipe they left on it. Why would they waste there time pulling off an FMF exhaust which they are given hundreds of. They do pull off the suspension and put the stock stuff back on as evidenced by the bikes last 6 VIN #'s written on both fork tubes and the shock body. Every bike i see from the auction is different for that matter....We got one of Reeds practice bikes a few months ago. The only thing left on this bike was some trick radiators. All suspension was put back to stock and a stock pipe thrown on it. Guess what? The carburetor was Stock and full of race gas....jetting was way off for a stock pipe also. You know....whatever.......believe what you wan't....I know better first hand or i wouldn't even be saying anything. As far as the powerbowl thing goes??? I am happy its working for you and anyone else who its actually working for. I'm just posting an experience with one on a 250f.

again, not the same FMF that they actually race with..guaranteed theyre throwing a stock production pipe on it for resale and taking the specifically Researched and Developed Factory pipe off. The bike you got from Reed. dont you think after they put the stock carb back on, wouldnt it be smart of them to throw some gas in it and fire it up to make sure she ran?...hence why gas would be in the carb

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again, not the same FMF that they actually race with..guaranteed theyre throwing a stock production pipe on it for resale and taking the specifically Researched and Developed Factory pipe off. The bike you got from Reed. dont you think after they put the stock carb back on, wouldnt it be smart of them to throw some gas in it and fire it up to make sure she ran?...hence why gas would be in the carb

The SAME FMF pipe. The bike sold on Saturday for 4500.00 or i would take some photos and post them. The reed bike was only a practice bike that had the markings" HL-TX..Practice" written with a sharpie above the clutch cover on the engine case. The bike did have gas in it....race gas and the float bowl was drained. The suspension was stock- never been ridden- OEM. Each fork tube had the last 6 VIN #'s written on them and so did the shock body. I agree with you that the works suspension that was on it was taken off and the original parts put back on. I assume the markings on the Reed bike meant "HONEY LAKE TEXAS" Practice. Oh yeah...it also had a 90/100/21 Bridgestone on the front if you know what that means. All these bikes had AMA tech stickers too.

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