I gots me a case of the Hard Startin' blues.

[sploogemonkey]

I often flatter myself by assuming that I'm at least half-assed intelligent, though I'm sure that someone here will come along shortly and prove just how wrong I am.

I have a '00 600R and it's always been a reliable starter, hot or cold.

I recently uncorked my pig (removed snorkel, uncorked the manifold, full exhaust system, and re-jetted) and took it out yesterday for a full mornings worth of riding in SoCal's recently drenched foothills.

I must have kicked that thing at least 60 times (approx 3 kicks a minute for twenty minutes) before it lit-off.

I started with my usual regimen for a cold engine:

1. Petcock on, unscrew floatbowl drain until fuel dribbles out, close, wait 30 sec.
   
2. Fully engage choke.
   
3. Kick through 10x with compression lever depressed.
   
4. Find TDC and go slightly past then release compression lever.
   
5. With throttle off, give a John Wayne style kick. (non-***** kick)
   

This yielded nothing but frustration.

I repeated one more time, still nothing.

I then repeated several times without the 10x priming ritual with no success either.

Fearing I had flooded it, I laid it on it's side until fuel dribbled out of the carb and kicked with throttle held open. Nothing still.

I tried several variations of choke full, half, and off. Nothing.

This went on for at least 15~20 minutes, accompanied by a tirade of name calling insults that would have made a long shoreman blush.

Finally, after my bike had been laughing at me enough, it started. I don't even remember what the magic sequence was that got it going, but it started.

Here's the jetting and the mornings conditions:

• Fuel screw 2.5 turns out.
  
• 68 pilot.
  
• clip on 3rd position (middle)
  
• 165 main.
  
• Approx. 55 degrees, slight humidity.
  
• Approx 1k feet elevation.
  
• 91 octane pump gas
  
• perfectly clean carb.
  

I figure with a 68 pilot and 2.5 turns out on the fuel screw, it should be plenty rich for starting. Maybe I should omit the 10x kick ritual to prime the combustion chamber?

Please offer some suggestions, 'cause I don't want this much of a hassle to get it started.

Thanks!

[scalejockey]

was it cold? (First start of the day) or during the ride?

[sploogemonkey]

was it cold? (First start of the day) or during the ride?

Yes, the bike was cold. Hadn't ridden it for a week.

The morning was chilly, but not super cold. Maybe 55 degrees.

After the bike was warm, it would start on the first or second kick all morning long, no problem. It just was really difficult getting it going first thing from a dead cold engine.

[danny v]

HI, maybe you flood it ? i have understood it to be only 5X kick through not 10. Also i have been told that the 600r is sensitive to bad plugs. How old is your plug? Do you have the right plug? I live in calif at sea level and my bike starts after 5X kick through ( lever in ) than maybe 3 -4 kicks off TDC,full choke.Full choke only to start,than mid choke for maybe 2 min than off. It takes my bike a few min to warm up. 160 main,65 pilot,WB E series.Good luck

[martinfan30]

well to me it sounds like spark. you have compression and fuel thats good.

your stator may need a rewind.

[zipper600]

Yes, the bike was cold. Hadn't ridden it for a week.

The morning was chilly, but not super cold. Maybe 55 degrees.

After the bike was warm, it would start on the first or second kick all morning long, no problem. It just was really difficult getting it going first thing from a dead cold engine.

10x?????Seems too much

i open petcock,full choke,2 times kicked with decomp lever.Release lever.1/4 throttle.Kick hard till starts.About 2-3 times starts.Half choke 1 minute.then close it and its ready to go..Dont lay the bike...youre flooding it..

[sploogemonkey]

I gave it a go again today. Same prob'. I'm thinking it's too rich on the slow speed circuit.

I'm running a 68 pilot and 2-1/2 turns out on the fuel screw.

Movin' it to 2 turns out...........

I'll update in a minute or two.......

[sploogemonkey]

It took me about ten minutes to get it going this time.

I suspect that even at 2 turns out, it's still a bit on the rich side.

I did my usual cold starting routine and it just wouldn't light after about 12 kicks.

I played with various choke settings and still no success after another five kicks.

I then kicked it WFO and voila! It hiccupped to life.

I turned the fuel screw to 1-3/4 turns out and I'm gonna let the engine get cold again and later this evening I'll start it again and see how it behaves.

Having a twenty kick wonder sucks.

[martinfan30]

i still think you are looking for a problem in the wrong area. you havent changed anything recently right? if you did some jetting changes and it was fine for awhile, then now a prob. exist's. look at the spark at the plug when cold. i bet you'll find a weak spark.

[sploogemonkey]

I'll pick up a fresh plug either tonight or in the morning and check the spark on it first.

I'm guessing (hoping) it'll be a strong blue spark.

[danny v]

Take the plug cap off the coil wire (unscrew) look for good conection.Hold the plug wire 1/4 '' away from the head ( plug removed ) kick and observe the spark from the wire to the head. you may have a bad cap or resistor in cap.The exciter coil should have 84 ohms or so (black with red tracer to ground) I just went through this on a bike i just bought.What year is your bike? 600R? 1988-1990 the resistance should be 230-320 ohms @68 deg.F

After 1990 the resistance should be 50-200 ohms @ 68 deg.F The ignition pulse genarator should have 360-440 ohms @68 deg. F Measure the resistance between green/white and blue/yellow and you should get 360-440

ohms.good luck

[rangerman]

Sounds like a spark plug. I could be wrong though.

[scalejockey]

what Danny v said.. A+

But you can check the cap by removing the resistor to inspect it.Use a big flat blade to unscrew it. The resistor and a little spring will fall out.If it's bad you can replace it with a piece of brass.

But the first thing i'd try is a new plug.

[xr650rkyle]

Well I went thru this on my 600 last year.

I changed ...in order.

The plug

the coil

The CDI

Checked... and still no start

THen

the pulse generator, nothing...

and then Finally the Stator

Started 2nd kick:ride:

TIPS: Buy a spark tester from autozone, It is a cool little cheap device that checks the length of your spark against your head.

If you replace any electronics start with the stator first, unless you just like spending extra money!

Also try a 65s slow jet...

[Owyhee]

I had the same problem with my 600 last year. It was impossible to start when cold (below 40ish). I usually didn't even bother to try and kick it and would rather just roll start it.

The magic trick (at least for my bike) is to turn up the idle screw all the way and use full choke. It turned the bike from a 50-kick to a 2-kick. Once the bike starts it really doesn't like to run with the idle up and the choke on so I flip the choke lever to the middle position and gradually turn the idle down with the idle screw.

"O"

[Beyond The Pale]

As others have said it could be your stator. I had to replace mine. However, my stator went bad with heat. It started fine when cold. I went through everything before doing the stator. I did not replace mine, I just got some small wire and rewound it. My bike starts great now. Usually on the first kick. It really pisses my friend off who have electric start. I can usually get my bike going before they can.

For a reference, I also have a 68 pilot and run about 2 turns out. I done even have a choke in my bike at all. I turn the idle up a little and just kick if it is over 55-60. When colder I have to tip the bike over to let it flood a little. Then I kick real hard. I had no problems starting it last weekend as cold as it was in the dez.

With the 68 pilot you might not need full choke unless it's really cold. Try starting at half choke.

[sploogemonkey]

I went out riding today and a totally different problem popped up. My float height is too high. How do I know? It dribbled gas oput of the overflow hose all ride long and it would load up anytime I was puttin along cowtrailing it.

I must have accidentally bent the float tang somehow when I messed with the jetting recently. My fault for having fat a$$ed fingers.

Anyway, I adjusted the fuel screw down to 1-3/4 turns, and I think that may have cured the problem, though I really need to get my float height correct before I'll know for sure.

It was too cold and windy for me to pull the carb out in the boonies today, so I'll prolly have to wait until the weekend to fart around with it.

Here's a shot from todays ride.

[martinfan30]

nice shot, where is that?

[Beyond The Pale]

If it was constantly puking gas then there might be a little piece of crud under the float needle. The crud keeps it from closing leading to the leaking fuel.

Here is a simple trick that I learned when from my bikes with rusty tanks. Turn off the petcock. Drain the fuel bowl with the drain screw. Let the gas run out. Don't close it yet. Open the petcock and let the gas flow out the drain for a couple of seconds. Close the drain. This procedure can flush the crud out. It's worked countless times for me.

[philipstjohn]

If it was constantly puking gas then there might be a little piece of crud under the float needle. The crud keeps it from closing leading to the leaking fuel.

Here is a simple trick that I learned when from my bikes with rusty tanks. Turn off the petcock. Drain the fuel bowl with the drain screw. Let the gas run out. Don't close it yet. Open the petcock and let the gas flow out the drain for a couple of seconds. Close the drain. This procedure can flush the crud out. It's worked countless times for me.

That's the hot ticket!