Fine dust getting past filter? Suggestions?

Likewise i tried the no-toil once. It was a bad deal even for free. I have been using the Twin-Air system with the bucket of Dirt remover solvent and the bucket of the thick blue Twin-Air oil. Its a bit pricey for the kit but it will clean your filter a hundred times. Works excellent in my opinion.

This is best for me to it works great :worthy:

Thanks Gray.

So let me get this right. You have a 5 gallon bucket of mineral spirits with a screen in it and you wash a ton of fileters with the same stuff. I think that would work for me as well and it sounds fast enough.

Is the screen a loose mesh suspended of off the bottom just to keep the filter out of the dirt or have you come up with some kind of filter to keep your solvent clean?

Do you ever wash again with soapy water (dawn?) after using the solvent to get out finer sediment or just use the solvent alone?

I appreciate the advice. Again, I maintain 4 bikes and need to be efficient.

I have used No-Toil exclusively for the last 5 years and I don't recall ever experiencing what you described. No-Toil, when used properly (adequate amount of oil, filter installed correctly, etc...), is hands down the best filter system I have used. The ease of cleaning makes it easy to keep clean air filters in my bike every ride.

I have had filters fall apart, but not from No-Toil. Other solvents however have been known to eat glue, hands, and just about everything else it comes into contact with.

The only thing that may be considered a hassle about No-Toil is it's tendency to dry up a bit after a few days, leading to a less efficient filter. To avoid this, I always throw on a new filter the night before or the day of, which is no hassle at all really when I think about the time saved when cleaning.

And I want to be careful about bashing a good product. I DON'T want to do that in this thread.

I'm not claiming my technique was good. Maybe I forgot the rim grease or didn't oil heavily enough. I have gone on dusty rides and seen it work and at other times had some intrusion. I'm not completely ruling out no toil for now. But, I might find that a product that's a little more forgiving works better for my situation though.

I use the FFT also. Its super tacky and makes a mess, but it won't let dust thru.

I clean mine in my parts washer (mineral spirits) and then I rinse them in hot soapy water.

I use the no toil filters, but not the chemicals. The no toil filter element is made very well and they also fit very well. The FFT/mineral spirits haven't hurt them yet.

Do you use the standard no toil filters?

Those are the ones I have been using. Also, how many filters would you think one could wash in a 5 gallon bucket of mineral spirits? Would it be like 10 or closer to a 100? I'm trying to figure the cost.

One more question for all. If I got a slight amount of very very fine talc like dust in the air boot have I trashed my ride. This has only happened 2 times to my knowledge but I'm starting to wonder if it has happened other times when I didn't notice it.

Do you use the standard no toil filters?

Those are the ones I have been using. Also, how many filters would you think one could wash in a 5 gallon bucket of mineral spirits? Would it be like 10 or closer to a 100? I'm trying to figure the cost.

Yes, I use the standard no toil filters, but I use the FFT oil instead of the no toil chemicals.

My parts washer holds 12 gallons of mineral spirits. I've cleaned maybe 100 filters in it and it still does fine. The mineral spirits is the same color as the FFT, but it still works good. I use the parts washer for everything else too (cleaning fork internals, cylinders, heads, ect...)

Mineral spirits is cheap enough. The last time I bought it, I found it on sale at Rural King for $3.99/gallon. Mineral Spirits is the cheapest/most cost effective way to clean them.

I bought the parts washer at Harbor Freight for $79 with the electric pump. They are very handy to have in the garage! :worthy:

The only thing that may be considered a hassle about No-Toil is it's tendency to dry up a bit after a few days, leading to a less efficient filter. To avoid this, I always throw on a new filter the night before or the day of, which is no hassle at all really when I think about the time saved when cleaning.
That's one of the gripes I have about it; it won't stay tacky, and it isn't tacky enough in the first place. I can and do pre oil extra filters on multi-day desert trips. I let these air dry for 24 hours just as I would if they were going straight on the bike, then bag them in gallon size freezer Ziplocs. No-Toil looses far too much stickiness as it sits.
So let me get this right. You have a 5 gallon bucket of mineral spirits with a screen in it and you wash a ton of fileters with the same stuff. I think that would work for me as well and it sounds fast enough.

Is the screen a loose mesh suspended of off the bottom just to keep the filter out of the dirt or have you come up with some kind of filter to keep your solvent clean?

Do you ever wash again with soapy water (dawn?) after using the solvent to get out finer sediment or just use the solvent alone?

The bucket has 3 to 4 gallons of MS in it at once. The screen is basically there just as a separator to try to let the sediment stay on the bottom. When I remove a dirty filter, I use a camel hair paint brush to disengage whatever loose stuff I can into the trash. Then the filter goes in the bucket. The center bolt and cage go in the parts washer. (I maintain the parts washer separately). The filter comes clean very quickly with a little squeezing (no wringing), then squeeze out what you can and hang it out to dry. Takes mere minutes. No soapy water second wash.

At this point, I either install a pre-oiled element, or oil one up fresh, and I'm done. Separating the washer and the parts cleaner does a couple of things I like. One is that the dirt from the filters really gets completely settled out and doesn't mix with the parts solvent. The other is that FFT is so tenacious that the solvent starts to feel tacky after 20 filters or so. That's not a problem for washing filters, but it's annoying anywhere else.

After a few months, I dispose of the used solvent. Depending on the condition of the parts washer at the time, I sometimes use that solvent for the filters and put the new stuff in there instead.

The only downsides IMO are that you do need to have a proper way of getting rid of the used MS, and you either need to have two filters per bike, time to air dry the wet filters, or a way of speed drying them. Multiple filters is the best bet on the last count.

I just want a good system and don't mind spending a few bucks to get started. If I can clean 30+ filters in a 5 gallon ms bucket that works for me. I already have 3 new no toil filters. I think I might give it a try.

I have a lot of no toil cleaner and oil that I need to figure out what to do with now:(

One more question for all. If I got a slight amount of very very fine talc like dust in the air boot have I trashed my ride. This has only happened 2 times to my knowledge but I'm starting to wonder if it has happened other times when I didn't notice it.

I had one ride that had a very little amount of dust get by the filter (guess what...I used no toil). I checked the valve clearances and they were within spec. I think one ride is ok, just don't make it a habit!

BTW I use maxima FFT now and I am absolutely smitten with the results:thumbsup:

I dont know if this has been mentioned or not, but if you lay a piece of duct tape lengthwise across the top of the filter/boot seal it helps quite a bit in stopping grit from getting into the boot. The top tends to catch more sand in the joint than the sides and a lot more than the bottom does and I suspect the nylon cage could flex a bit at times. The tape covers the joint so the dirt doesnt get trapped.

I had the same problem, I was crazy enough to try No-toil a second time. Fine dust on th inside of my old KTM. I usually wipe a piece of white paper towel inside the air boot during a filter cleaning and guess what, both times I used no toil I had dust. May have been something I did wrong, but it has not happened since i changed filter oils. No-toil sure cleaned up in a friendly way, though!

The only downsides IMO are that you do need to have a proper way of getting rid of the used MS.

So how do you despose of the used MS. Don't worry, I won't tell DEQ.

I can usually get rid of it for free at the local Kragen Auto Parts store. They take up to 5 gallons of used oil at a time from any customer for free. Otherwise, you find a recycling center.

PJ1 filter oil and filter cleaner, ( 2 different spray cans) never had an easier or better performing system. The oil is as good as any top end stuff (belray) but the cleaner is amazing, way better than maxim I find. No soap, just the spray can and water down the drain, nothing to dispose. Once the filter has dried I oil it down and keep it in a big zip lock freezer bag until I need it. When installing I use grease around the seal. Even less workl add an outerwear prefilter to the set up. Keeps the filter amazingly clean.

PJ1 filter oil and filter cleaner, ( 2 different spray cans) never had an easier or better performing system. The oil is as good as any top end stuff (belray) but the cleaner is amazing, way better than maxim I find. No soap, just the spray can and water down the drain, nothing to dispose. Once the filter has dried I oil it down and keep it in a big zip lock freezer bag until I need it. When installing I use grease around the seal. Even less workl add an outerwear prefilter to the set up. Keeps the filter amazingly clean.

That system works well under a few conditions...

1. You don't care what you wash down into your drain and into the environment.

2. You clean 1 filter a month or get the product for free, as using that cleaner exclusively could get expensive real fast.

PJ1 filter oil and filter cleaner, ( 2 different spray cans) never had an easier or better performing system. The oil is as good as any top end stuff (belray) but the cleaner is amazing, way better than maxim I find. No soap, just the spray can and water down the drain, nothing to dispose. Once the filter has dried I oil it down and keep it in a big zip lock freezer bag until I need it. When installing I use grease around the seal. Even less workl add an outerwear prefilter to the set up. Keeps the filter amazingly clean.

I do the same thing with my air filters, but I DON'T, repeat DON'T, dump the water down the drain. Instead, it goes into a 5 gal bucket that I take to the nearest oil change shop (Mr. Lube, Jiffy Lube, etc) and get them to dump it in their used oil tank for me.

I have been using MOTUL air filter oil.I have used the bel ray and FFT before the motul oil is super sticky and stays that way untill its super dirty.It literally strings from the filter to your hand when you touch it.

I use mineral spirits as well then wash it with warm water and dish soap .

I NEVER bother washing & reusing a filter. I run a brand new oiled filter at every change. But then again, I don't ride in much fine dust in these parts, so I get 3-4 rides out of a filter.

I'm certainly no factory rider, but the cost of a new filter every time is a cheap investment in my eyes to protect my baby and have fresh air going to her lungs. Plus, I have no wash residue to dispose of or cleaners to buy.

I have two 07 450's and they both dusted slightly. After buying I took them home and serviced filters, put two rides on them and went to clean again and noticed just a slight coating. So I thought maybe I just didnt notice or something from before. Anyway serviced them very very carefully and put one ride on them and rechecked. Sure enough dusted slightly :thumbsup: So I pulled filter frame(hard plastic) from boot and noticed a definite dirt path around filter. the plastic has a slight warped area. So I sealed with just a touch of RTV and put together. The bikes have one ride since then but havent checked yet to verify if solved, but I'm pretty sure thats gonna do it.I will find out in the next few nights and post.BTW they are the OEM filters. If this doesnt cure it they are gone.

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