Oil and cam lube '99 650L

I am puting a new cam, rockers and oil pump in my bike (see post below)

I picked up the Honda synthetic without moly and want to know if anyone is using cam lube when asembling the top end. It seams most cam lube has moly and I understand you do not want to use moly with a wet clutch. The Honda factory manual says to just lube with motor oil. This is the second cam and do not want to take any chances.

Thanks

"I picked up a '99 XR 650 L with 2,500 miles this summer and after riding another 1,000 miles I had the same problem. I changed the oil and filter when I got it and all was good. At 3,700 miles I replaced the cam, all four rockers and bearings. I also changed the oil, flushed downtube and crankcase with oil and checked the screen on the down tube. $280.00 latter was on the road. After 300 miles the same thing occured. After replacing the cam etc. I ran the bike with the valve adjuster caps off and it looked like it was getting plenty of oil"

Use assembly lube made specifically for camshafts to liberally coat the cam lobes and rocker arm contact faces when assembling. The lube is marketed by all the camshaft manufacturers such as Edelbrock, Crane, etc. It is available at front line auto parts stores such as NAPA.

I am puting a new cam, rockers and oil pump in my bike (see post below)

I picked up the Honda synthetic without moly and want to know if anyone is using cam lube when asembling the top end. It seams most cam lube has moly and I understand you do not want to use moly with a wet clutch. The Honda factory manual says to just lube with motor oil. This is the second cam and do not want to take any chances.

Thanks

"I picked up a '99 XR 650 L with 2,500 miles this summer and after riding another 1,000 miles I had the same problem. I changed the oil and filter when I got it and all was good. At 3,700 miles I replaced the cam, all four rockers and bearings. I also changed the oil, flushed downtube and crankcase with oil and checked the screen on the down tube. $280.00 latter was on the road. After 300 miles the same thing occured. After replacing the cam etc. I ran the bike with the valve adjuster caps off and it looked like it was getting plenty of oil"

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The camchain will carry a lot of oil up top and fool you. Loosen the banjo bolt on the rocker box (top of oil feed line) and spin the motor over with the starter. You should get a lot of oil flow almost immediately. If not the check valve in the oil pump has gone bad and it's best you just replace the pump.

Costs about $140 with side cover gasket and O-rings. Also check the center support bearing in the head and rocker cover. It's more than likely gauled pretty good by now if oil flow is the problem. Put a liberal coat of assembly lube on all load bearing surfaces of the cam and rockers. Leave banjo bolt on the rocker cover loose and spin the motor until oil flows from the line. Tighten the fitting and spin the motor for another 30 seconds to fill the cam and bearings the install the sparkplug and fire it up. Should be good to go. Don't worry about the small amount of Molly and Graphite that will be disolved in the oil Shouldn't be a problem.:ride:

:thumbsup::worthy::ride:

Thanks for the information. I am waiting for an o-ring for the new oil pump and I can put the side cover back on. There was a little gauling on lower half the center bearing but it cleaned up with a little Scotch Brite. Good comment on the cam chain carrying oil to the top end. I had planned on pulling the spark plug and cranking it to look for oil flow from the linr to the valve cover.

Hopefully this $500.00 repair will last longer than the last.

I installed the new oil pump and put about 1/2 qt. of syn oil in the crank case before I put the cover back on. I primed the pump and left the oil line to the top end off to check for oil. I pulled the spark plug and cranked it over and no oil to the top end. I removed the oil filter and left the cover off and cranked it and nothing comming from the pump. I poured oil into both ports to the filter and still nothing. I have reassembled everything except for adjusting the valves and finishing installing the carb.

Should I just try starting it and seeing if the increased RPM will pull oil or should I dump the oil and pull the cover off and check it out?

I use Activ8 oil treatment in my 675 road racer. Its great stuff (I sell it on motopike.com!). Tho you cannot be too careful checking that theres a good oil supply to the cam!

I am puting a new cam, rockers and oil pump in my bike (see post below)

I picked up the Honda synthetic without moly and want to know if anyone is using cam lube when asembling the top end. It seams most cam lube has moly and I understand you do not want to use moly with a wet clutch. The Honda factory manual says to just lube with motor oil. This is the second cam and do not want to take any chances.

Thanks

My Honda XR600 manual specifies the use of moly paste on the cam and rocker arms for startup lube.

Did you put oil in the frame tank before turning the oil pump? There are really two oil pumps. The first pumps oil oit of the crankcase and into the frame tube. The other pumps from the frame tube to the engine. IF you don't put oil in the frame tube you will not see it in the engine.

If you just leave the oil filter cover off you should see the oil out of the oil pump sooner. If there is an oil source to the pump and it is primed, it should appear there in only a few seconds.

After my last engine work, it took almost 90 seconds for the oil to appear at the top of the oil line to the head. It was a really long 90 seconds.

My Honda XR600 manual specifies the use of moly paste on the cam and rocker arms for startup lube.

Did you put oil in the frame tank before turning the oil pump? There are really two oil pumps. The first pumps oil oit of the crankcase and into the frame tube. The other pumps from the frame tube to the engine. IF you don't put oil in the frame tube you will not see it in the engine.

If you just leave the oil filter cover off you should see the oil out of the oil pump sooner. If there is an oil source to the pump and it is primed, it should appear there in only a few seconds.

After my last engine work, it took almost 90 seconds for the oil to appear at the top of the oil line to the head. It was a really long 90 seconds.

Just to clear up my understanding of the system, I thought there was a small sump in the crankcase that the engine oil pump pulled its oil from, and then a scavenging pump that sent excess oil from that sump up to the frame?

Yes, its a 'dry-sump', but there is a small wet-sump down there- that's what the oil level check-bolt in the crankcase is for, to check the level at the pressure pump.

Dave

IVe learnt from expeirence its best to crank push the bike with the spark plug out, top banjo of the cam supply pipe loosened and oil retun pipe to the tank loosened. That way you can be certain theres oil to the cam and the oil is scavenging back to the tank.

Very easy to do and worth the effort!!

Make sure you tighen the pipes up before starting

Thanks all! After I posted the question I fooled around with it a little longer and remembered a thread I had looked at and found this. It worked great. I put some air to the breather tube out of the valve cover and it shot a little oil out and then air and Eurkeka...oil. And all apears to be well.

oldchvytrx

TT Member

Join Date: Nov 2006

Location: Indiana

Posts: 92

Re: Priming the oil pump?

Quote:

Originally Posted by xlr8r

Hey,

I'm rebuilding my 650L engine and was wondering if there is a specific way (if it is even necesary) to prime the oil pump. I oiled the hell out of everything on assembly but it still scares me to pull the trigger. Thanks!

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A little trick imparted to me by one of the first factory certified Honda mechanics in the US.... I still use it and have never had a problem getting the pump to pick-up quickly. When you disassemble the pump to check clearances pack it with petroleum jelly (Vaseline) and reassemble and install. On the "L" be sure and pack both sides, main and sump scavenging.

Leave the spark plug out, leave the oil line loose (banjo bolt) on the rocker cover and spin with the starter until oil flows (probably less than a minute). Tighten the banjo bolt and spin it for anther few seconds before installing the plug and fireing it up. Make SURE you use a good moly assembly lube on the rocker faces, cam lobes and the cam's center support bearing.

The Vaseline will just disolve into the oil. If your woried about the parrafin it contains change out the break-in oil after about 100 mile or so but the amount is so small it doesn't cause a problem.

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