Problem w/06 YZ450F in 1st 15 minutes

[OcotilloBound]

Just bought an 06 YZ450F off the showroom floor at a dealer nearby, and took it out sunday to Ocotillo for break in. After riding it around the camp for a while, with it running perfectly, seating the brakes and working the throttle up/down, I took off with my buddy and his wife and kids. We were taking it easy, cruising the trails, and jumped off into a wash with some more challenging terrain, when suddenly the bike died on me. I started it up and it was running very rough, wouldn't idle and I had to keep the revs up. So I caught up with them, and it was surging and sputtering alternately. I hit some deep sand and it surged suddenly, pushing me almost into a fence before I caught it and then it sputtered in the soft stuff, putting me down, and it died. Like I said, it was soft, but I still hurt my knee a little, so I'm walking the pain off, and trying to figure what the heck was up with my 15 minute old bike. Fuel was fine, same batch I had filled my truck up with before leaving from Shell, 91 octane, so that wasn't an issue. Elevation not significantly different either from dealership and Ocotillo. Then we tried starting it - would not start, either w/ and w/o hot start engaged. So we tow started it and it was rough - barely stayed running with constant revving. I just said I'm going back to camp, and barely nursed it home down shell reef expressway, surging and stuff the whole way, hard to keep it upright when the terrain got rough and i had to back off the throttle and it wanted to die on me. So I just forgot about it until the morning when I started it, on the first kick, but it sounded rough again, so I killed it. Took it back to the dealer today and they are mystified too. It backfired on the first and started on the second kick, but still sounded rough. They are going to get into it, but I'm not happy with the thing. For one, it hasn't had 1/8 of the time for break in and it's already screwed up? I'm not sure I like the chance of the thing getting broken in right, and what the future portends. Anyone else have a similar issue? If the thing doesn't come back perfect, I'm considering invoking the lemon law and asking for a new one. It shouldn't have happened, these bikes are bulletproof for the most part.

[Jaycycle]

wow thats really surprizing, I haven't herd anything of it. Keep us posted on whats wrong.

[Nitroused383]

Did you check to see if the thing had any oil or antifreeze? I wouldn't keep riding it if it sounded rough. Make sure that the spark plug cap is pressed on all the way. It could just be something simple.

[OcotilloBound]

First thing I checked before starting the next day was oil and coolant levels....right to the top, so that wasn't the problem. I would have felt pretty dumb taking it back and finding either of them empty!

[bboyce]

Maybe a jet rattled loose..Pilet jet? Check that.

[642MX]

It sounds like something is in the carb. Maybe a piece of plastic from the gas tank or something like that. Forget invoking any lemon laws, give the dealer a chance to make it right.

[jeffboyd47m]

Check the woodruff key on the flywheel.

[davo ttt]

Just bought an 06 YZ450F off the showroom floor at a dealer nearby, and took it out sunday to Ocotillo for break in. After riding it around the camp for a while, with it running perfectly, seating the brakes and working the throttle up/down, I took off with my buddy and his wife and kids. We were taking it easy, cruising the trails, and jumped off into a wash with some more challenging terrain, when suddenly the bike died on me. I started it up and it was running very rough, wouldn't idle and I had to keep the revs up. So I caught up with them, and it was surging and sputtering alternately. I hit some deep sand and it surged suddenly, pushing me almost into a fence before I caught it and then it sputtered in the soft stuff, putting me down, and it died. Like I said, it was soft, but I still hurt my knee a little, so I'm walking the pain off, and trying to figure what the heck was up with my 15 minute old bike. Fuel was fine, same batch I had filled my truck up with before leaving from Shell, 91 octane, so that wasn't an issue. Elevation not significantly different either from dealership and Ocotillo. Then we tried starting it - would not start, either w/ and w/o hot start engaged. So we tow started it and it was rough - barely stayed running with constant revving. I just said I'm going back to camp, and barely nursed it home down shell reef expressway, surging and stuff the whole way, hard to keep it upright when the terrain got rough and i had to back off the throttle and it wanted to die on me. So I just forgot about it until the morning when I started it, on the first kick, but it sounded rough again, so I killed it. Took it back to the dealer today and they are mystified too. It backfired on the first and started on the second kick, but still sounded rough. They are going to get into it, but I'm not happy with the thing. For one, it hasn't had 1/8 of the time for break in and it's already screwed up? I'm not sure I like the chance of the thing getting broken in right, and what the future portends. Anyone else have a similar issue? If the thing doesn't come back perfect, I'm considering invoking the lemon law and asking for a new one. It shouldn't have happened, these bikes are bulletproof for the most part.

i to have the same bike and this might not be your problem but when i purchased my bike there were clear instructions from the dealer and on the hotup kit instructions not to use shell fuel the mechanic at the dealer strongly pointed out that they had several bikes returned with motor problems caused by additives that shell uses .the yamaha company does recommend caltex and someone else but no shell

[OcotilloBound]

Well, it's back at the dealer already, so I can't go check the flywheel or the carb. I am of course going to give the dealer the chance to make it right, I only said anything about the lemon law if I get it back and it isn't 100% right. I just want my bike to get broken in properly so it won't have problems in the future from not getting done right.

The first thing I checked when I got back was if something had been left in the airbox, like a rag, but it was clear. Then I checked the fluids after it cooled, because it sounded to me like a problem from running hot, and it felt hot, even though I hadn't been riding long. But I figured, carb issue, or air intake, or fluids, so who knows, it could be the pilot jet as was put forth. I will hear from them hopefully tomorrow and they will hopefully say it was something basic. I'm dreading if they try to tell me something that I know isn't right, like if they say, oh, there wasn't any coolant in it or something, when I know there was. If that happens, I'll do my best to return the bike and take my business elsewhere, because a dishonest dealership is the worst. When they think they can lie to the customer because "most of them don't know any better" then that is a recipe for disaster. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until they try to pull a stunt like that, then it's bye-bye. They already screwed up and gave me a 07 manual, which I pointed out to them today, but they didn't have any 06's he said, and would have to order it. Hmmmm.....so far, not so good.

[OcotilloBound]

No instructions from the dealer or in the manuals or anywhere else about not using Shell gasoline. Remember, California has different fuel from everywhere else anyway, maybe it's not an issue and maybe it's a bigger issue because of formulation differences. I will look into that when I talk to the service guys tomorrow. Thanks for the tip.

[davo ttt]

when i got my bike i received a 3 page booklet called yrd yamaha race developments it clearly says to use caltex or mobil. and to go with that the shop mechanic said that they had trouble with bikes using shell hi oct due to additives that they use

[grayracer513]

It might be worth looking at the spark plug. My moons ago (the early 70's) it was fairly well kown that you couldn't use Shell, especially in two-strokes because it would "whisker" the plug (form a deposit that bridged across the plug gap). Most of the street rodders avoided it, too. I still don't use it to this day based on those experiences.

[Matt96xr6]

Hot start is stuck open. This is a racebike and you need to tear it down, grease it and adjust it properly.

But your symptoms are typical of a stuck hotstart.

[OcotilloBound]

Hey, things are different in OZ than they are here. Especially things in the automotive and motorsport worlds. And certainly in terms of environmental regulations and gasoline formulation. There are regulations in place federally by the EPA that are overridden by the CARB for formulations of gasoline to control the emissions for vehicles in California. As a result, the gasoline available to Californians is generally of poorer quality as it has less VOC's than most other states. Seeing as how VOC stands for Volatile Organic Compounds, volatility is the crucial issue here - if it goes "BANG" less, than your car or bike will not run as efficintly as it will on gas that goes bang more, but it will put out less oxides of Nitrogen through the exhaust if it's volatility is less.

Now, while the YZ450F engine, as sold in the USA anyway, is optimized to run on 91 octane pump gas, it isn't recommended to use the methanol additive gases that are being touted as the next great thing in them, and if Yamaha were to extensively test gas that is CA formulated and that from less "green" states, they might actually come up with a revision to their current recommendations. But seeing as how Yamaha's largest stateside operations are based in California, I have no doubt they have most likely optimized their ignition mappings, or whatever electronic controls related to combustion that are used, to California gas, since that is where they are testing them and selling probably the greatest number of bikes than in any other state. And Shell gas is not generally known for any irregularities in California, it's considered to be a quality product. The dutch know what they're doing-Heck, they found Australia first. Not like Arco gas, which most people will concur is more water than gas, or at least that's how your engine runs on it. So I'm sorry that your argument holds no water here in California, but I appreciate your input on the matter.

[02YZ426]

Thats some tough luck right there.... Thousands of those bikes came off the line perfect, and you get the only one I've ever heard of that didn't run. Don't worry too much, its probably nothing major.... and being that new its covered anyhow. Hopfully they have you up and running fast.

[grayracer513]

I am not an Aussie, nor do I play one on TV (even though I rather admire the lot of them) and all three of my YZF's and all my cars and trucks run perfectly well on Arco pump gas from the SoCal air basin. I still refuse to use Shell, and I still say that you should take a look at the plug for starters. Your intriguing take on California gas notwithstanding, Yamaha's recommendations are accurate enough.

If the idle characteristics do not change when the hot start is pulled, then you should pull the tank to check that the cable is correctly routed, and not pulled out of its seat at the carb or elsewhere, as Matt suggested. If that gets you nowhere, look into all of the electrical connections.

And of course, it's brand new. Relax a little and see what your dealer's service manager will do for you.

[dubious]

my YZ 450 ran like that when the hot start stuck open, ran lean, hot, and surged...

[OcotilloBound]

Grayracer, I was replying to Davo ttt re: the australian comments- it just took me a while to hit post reply because a friend came over, and it went on after your post. Sorry for the confusion there...I know you aren't 'strine'. (that's australian for 'australian')

[Reyndogg]

my YZ 450 ran like that when the hot start stuck open, ran lean, hot, and surged...

ditto....that's three of us now mentioning that, although he's already taken the bike back to his dealer.

http://www.transworldmotocross.com/mx/how_to/article/0,13190,1161865,00.html

[OcotilloBound]

I am going to call the dealer in the AM and mention to them that the brain trust at TT.COM has posited that the problem might be with the hot start. I will most likely be picking it up tomorrow afternoon with everything fine if this is the case, which, when you think about it, makes all the sense in the world. It would do all those things it did with the hot start stuck on. So I've a feeling that you guys hit it right on the head. Hopefully they won't have my bike torn apart or anything (yeah, likely....not!) and it'll be ready to fly quickly. If that is not the case, I will update on this, but most likely I will just post to say that it was the problem. Thanks to all.