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InternalCombustion

What would Honda do...

42 posts in this topic

Okay, we've seen at least half a dozen sorrowful threads in the past two months, along the lines of "What's Honda gonna do to replace our beloved 650R? What's Honda gonna dooooo?!". We've read conjecturing ranging from Klingon-sourced Ion Drives, to re-badged KX-500's.

So, for sake of argument let's say that Honda has spent so much coin throwing titanium at their 450 and 250 four-stroke platforms that they don't have enough money to do a proper new 650 platform. (Bastards.)

Let's pretend they do a classic Harley Davidson remake: they license some innovative and popular kit from a top after-market supplier, and breathe new life (in our case, e-start) into our proven, un-challenged, open-class Baja Rey.

So we now have factory e-start (no whinning, you die-hard, right-leg-mini-muscle-builder Republican elitists). We also have a factory DS variant as well, so lots more people (though not Baja Designs ) are happy.

So here's the trick question: What does Honda do with The Holy Grail of Bullet-Proof Engines? "Bold new graphics" ain't gonna hack it, Norma Jean. "Improved" demands they give us SOMETHING in the way of more power. But, we are spoiled on 24-hours-at-redline reliability as well, so how do they give us more power without sacrificing more than just a teenie bit of reliability?

Okay, I'll fess up: this thread has two purposes:

1) it gives us a chance to second-guess Honda's Next Big Thing. (I mean, think about it: the XR650R?! It IS the Baja 1000! They come out with a replacement, and they screw it up?! Heads--lots of heads--will roll, sports fans. And the press will eat Honda's lunch, and make them pick up the tab!), and,

2) it gives us die-hard, "I'll-never-give-up-my-650R-and-you-are-a-Commie-pinko-for-asking" guys ideas about how to improve our uncorked engine's performance without sacrificing any significant reliability. It will give us a solid plan for a safe next step, after "Uncork".

So: What WOULD Honda do?

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HAHAHAHAHAHA, ok, sorry, I don't have much to contribute to the thread, because to be perfectly honest, I didn't even know Honda was ditching the 650R, but it pisses me off just the same.

I can't imagine they would kill such a great engine, so hopefully whatever new comes out, has a variant of the same 650thumper that we all know and love. You guys have liquid cooling, and more aggressive cams, but I can join in on the bashing just the same.

I like your unique terminology :devil:

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It is kinda like the same story with the Camaro, Chevy quit making it and people were quite PO'd about it But yet the pony cars still in production. Go figure why big corporations do what they do even with such a high demand for the product.

Bill

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It is kinda like the same story with the Camaro, Chevy quit making it and people were quite PO'd about it But yet the pony cars still in production. Go figure why big corporations do what they do even with such a high demand for the product.

Bill

No, you know what pissed me off about the Camaro...you know what Chevy said it was "replaced" by? The fuggin SSR :excuseme::devil::thumbsdn::cry::thumbsdn:

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Screw the SSR & HHR I really want to see the Camaro come back and kick butt!

Bill

I got ya, buddy. The current gen C6 Vette is a freaking push-rod and that baby still kicks butt and takes names, even when compared to exotics costing twice as much.

Chevy will ressurect the Camoro and the question is not whether it will kick butt--it will. The real question is whether it will be butt-ugly. Let's hope not.

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What would honda do; make it a 6 valve dohc with electronic fuel injection, add the usd forks, with speedo lights, Estart, the works, make it a six speed, put a 4.5 gallon tank on it and call it done. Name it, make sure its mostly red, and get ready to sell a butt load of them. XR650LR/ XR650RL.

As far as the Camaro if it looks like the concept chevy will have a winner even if the base motor was an inline 5 cylinder, The Ford guys will be saying copycats, we did it first. Next dodge will unleash their hemi 6.3 liter Challenger and will smoke em all. BACK TO THE FUTURE.

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What would honda do; make it a 6 valve dohc with electronic fuel injection, add the usd forks, with speedo lights, Estart, the works, make it a six speed, put a 4.5 gallon tank on it and call it done. Name it, make sure its mostly red, and get ready to sell a butt load of them. XR650LR/ XR650RL.

sounds good why don't you start making some phone calls so this can get done by 08

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I think Honda isn't going to do crap to the 650R except retire it at that 10yr point. Bike came out in 2000, I expect to see it around until that 2010 mark. Hopefully they develope another big bore 4 stroke to replace the 650 and I'm not talking the 450x. Funnny how Dirtbike mag tried to hype up the 450x winning the Baja 500 where the average speed of that race was like 45mph. 1st, the 650 would have won had they not crashed hard, 2nd, no way in hell the 450x will win the 1000. Obviously the 650R will win again and if the 650R loses, it will be KTM on their 700cc monster to take the win (believe it was their 625 punched out to a 700).

There was a recent race where team Honda won again on the 650R. I believe it was the Vegas to Barstow? Could be wrong but the point is the 450x lost again.

My point is with all this is that the 650 has a place. It's not going anywhere and the 450x is not the replacement like the media magazines try to insinuate.

I believe we are fortunate to own a bike that is so overbuilt nothing to compare to its power, and most importantly its durability.

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I believe we are fortunate to own a bike that is so overbuilt nothing to compare to its power, and most importantly its durability.

That's the point I'm trying to make in this thread: Honda has made another legend that continues to be so competitive in its class they do not need to a do radical replacement. The 650R is still king, it would be senseless to throw it out when it has yet to lose a race (that it was designed for).

The dialog I was hoping for was: how could Honda evolve a proven design like the 650R, without spending a lot of R&D money, or significantly impacting reliability?

So (work with me here), seems like they could add maybe a Stage 1 cam, springs and rollers, bump compression a quarter point, bump the CDI maybe 300 rpm, maybe slightly bigger valves, but nothing radical that would screw with the signature torque. In other words "evolution". Fuel injection would be awesome, they got to pull that trick out of their bag sooner or later.

Then, with those performance improvements they could add estart for a street DS version, kill two birds with one great engine. We all know an estart 650R would be very competitive in the DS market, right?

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That's the point I'm trying to make in this thread: Honda has made another legend that continues to be so competitive in its class they do not need to a do radical replacement. The 650R is still king, it would be senseless to throw it out when it has yet to lose a race (that it was designed for).

The dialog I was hoping for was: how could Honda evolve a proven design like the 650R, without spending a lot of R&D money, or significantly impacting reliability?

So (work with me here), seems like they could add maybe a Stage 1 cam, springs and rollers, bump compression a quarter point, bump the CDI maybe 300 rpm, maybe slightly bigger valves, but nothing radical that would screw with the signature torque. In other words "evolution". Fuel injection would be awesome, they got to pull that trick out of their bag sooner or later.

Then, with those performance improvements they could add estart for a street DS version, kill two birds with one great engine. We all know an estart 650R would be very competitive in the DS market, right?

Why won't Honda just put the Power-Up kit stock on the XR650R? They already make and sell it, so there's little or no R&D cost there. An e-start for the engine would be a great idea, but what about the weight penalty you'll have to pay? To lose a lot of weight on the 650R would cost big bucks in R&D money.

A DS 650R with e-start and Power-Up kit on the dealer's floors would probably sell just a bit slower than beer at a penny a can, if Honda can keep the weight of the bike at about 280 lbs dry. I'd buy one in a heartbeat for a commuter/trail bike.

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Guys the problem lies with all the tree hugger, noise and pollution standards that are being imposed. The stock xr650R is so choked down of the showroom floor it will barely get out of its own way. The only way to beat the obstacle is with extensive R&D that Honda does not want to invest in. And to recoupe that investment the bike would sell for $10K and the only way that would work is if every single xr600/650/R/L was turned in to honda for scrap. There are too many used XR's out there that will last a long long time for Honda to put $5mil into building one that will meet the epa standards and still run worth a darn. Now who is going to spend $10K on a new bike when you can buy one used for $3k and hotrod it all you want and have it run for 5 years. Only the rich, and thats not who rides (majority) these bikes.

I would love to see them do the 6 valve, FI model in a R/L. But the facts are it wont happen until it becomes a viable market for Honda to do so. I hate to be the bearer of bad news and it does suck.

We stand a better chance of someone else developing the bike we all dream of, and its a shame but Honda has its hands full just dealing with the chinese/korean invasion of cars and bikes, that are produced way cheaper than Honda can build them for.

What gets me is We (Americans) have contributed to it by buying those cars, for all we know we are funding the korean nuclear development. At least the Japanese know better, they have been through the bad end of that deal and want nothing else to do with that.

So go ride it while we have it, enjoy the generation of the pig cause just like vinyl records one day only collectors will have them.

SORRY GUYS :devil:

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pretty sure why the bike is so choked up is for emissions reasons. pretty much all bikes are choked up from the factory.

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Uh, has anyone told you guys that Honda 's A and B team are riding the 450 in the 1000?

The 650 is done. Get them while you can. I have two and I want a couple more.

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THIS is the future. Honda has already ceded the tiny off road motorcycle future to the chinese. They simply can't compete on cost basis. An article in one of the mags said they will have TWENTY new models on display at one of the international cycle shows. They will be racing as well within 2 years.

http://totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/viewtopic.php?t=17872&sid=f272446400fd40971e926ebde73a7d4e

Enjoy them, we are at the tailend of a chapter of motorcycling history (japanese dirt bikes).

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Uh, has anyone told you guys that Honda 's A and B team are riding the 450 in the 1000?

The 650 is done. Get them while you can. I have two and I want a couple more.

spot on - there's no more R & D going into the 650R - they stopped a year back.

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Thunder Chook are you for real with the crf450 Baja info,can you give me a web site with that info or something so i can see for myself.

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