Indy_WR450

Just finished adding an Oil Cooler for WR450

58 posts in this topic

I spent 5 days riding at Taylor Park / Cement Creek in Colorado and did 350 miles of hard riding. On long hill climbs the Rekluse would overheat the oil and the rad would boil over into the overflow tank. I would have to stop for 20 minutes before I could touch the clutch cover again. The combination of hot weather , thin air and brutally long climbs with a Rekluse is just too much for my bike. I will be testing the system with 5 days of high altitude hot weather riding in Idaho next week! I will update the results. :thumbsup:

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I have found the water temp sensor on my Trailtech Vapor to be very useful when riding. Slow 1st and 2nd gear climbs (or singletrack riding) will heat her up above 200 degrees to around 220 max. Anything above 2nd gear no matter the conditions will keep the temp under about 180 max, and 3-5 gear cruising on fireroads usually hovers between 145 and 160 degrees.

It is really nice to be able to monitor the coolant temps in realtime, especially if you have the bike idling at a crossroads or while waiting for other riders, it will heat up really quick when you're not moving.

Great write up. I plan to add an oil cooler to the bike eventually for long term piece of mind

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Indy, you rock! I'm always impressed with your knowledge and propensity to help a fellow TTer, but this thread takes the cake for general coolness (pun intended). Let us know how it works.

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This just might be one of the most useful threads I have read on TT. It even comes with the specs for the "Z" bracket.

I feel like a slacker for not contributing something this useful.

Is it a problem restricting the flow to the radiator? Would it be better to have some more duable tubing (i.e. braided or something). I am just thinking about those unplanned, unscheduled get-offs and the potential damage they could cause.

Are you suggesting that the Rekluse increases oil temperature?

Thanks Indy.

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I must congratulate you for the excellent work you have done! The diagrams and the photos are just perfect. :thumbsup:

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Is it a problem restricting the flow to the radiator? Would it be better to have some more duable tubing (i.e. braided or something). I am just thinking about those unplanned, unscheduled get-offs and the potential damage they could cause.

Are you suggesting that the Rekluse increases oil temperature?

The oil pump has no problem pushing the oil through the cooler and lines. You can see the oil flowing pretty fast through the semi clear hose. You could hard pipe this and tuck the lines in along the bottom of the radiator.

After I have proven out the effectivness of the new cooler I will rework the lines or add a guard extension off of the skid plate.

The Rekluse is a great product but it does generate more heat in the clutch and oil then a stock unit on technical long hill climbs. Anyone can feel the difference just by touching the clutch cover on a bike with and without the Rekluse.

Like I said this solution fits desert racers and rekluse owners that ride in the Mountains. :thumbsup:

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Anyone can feel the difference just by touching the clutch cover on a bike with and without the Rekluse

This is your scientific process by which you have made this conclusion? :ride:

First-you have a 490 kit on this WR. Bigger motor produce more power=more heat. Same radiator size =less capacity per/cc. :cry:

Your oil cooler idea is pretty neat but you probably just made your heat problem worse by restricting airflow over your radiators as well as those guards as well. My prediction is your cooling issue willl remain. :crazy:

Any auto clutch once engaged is no different than a stock manual clutch in that the plates are essentially locked and not slipping. So as long as you are not in the wrong gear and slipping the auto which you would have to do on the manual as well, you generate no more or less heat.

Possibly the ability to stop and restart in certain situations could create a condition that might generate more heat than a manual, but these THE ADVANTAGES to having the auto clutch in the first place.

If you are slipping the clutch more with an auto clutch it is because you are

a) slipping excessively due to riding style you've developed(look at changing it) :ride:

:ride: intentionally to maintain traction in a condition you wouldn't be able to without it.(this is the advantage) :thumbsup:

c) you have it setup incorrectly(fix it)

I have have been racing with an auto clutch for 4 years and have not noticed more or less heat in the engine as a result.

If you want to fix any overheat issue.

1) Take off the rad guards and put back the stock louvers

2) remove the oil cooler

3) run Zipty XF+_ or NPG+ coolant

This should put you back to a manageable condition.

If you want to get more transfer of heat from your motor , buy some oversized radiators from Fluidyne. Not a bad idea with the 490 kit. :ride:

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Nice job Indy, Thanks for taking the time to post the thread, you were definitely at the front of the line up when they were handing out brains. I think it would be a good idea to see a new sticky with threads like this one Dodgys mods to the standard pipe A-Rins carb thread among many other educational posts buried in the forum.

Chasejj, Indy has already been down the road of Evans NPG coolant and posted their web site, and as for riding ability I very much doubt with the hours Indy rides that he is causing problems from that respect. Just my .02c :ride::thumbsup:

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Great Job INDY.

For info I recently read, (believe it or not) in a UK mag where they tested Boyesen water pump impellers.

Compared to stock OEM items they ran 10 to 20% cooler; that is a lot and may also help those not wanting to go the oil cooler routing. I cant remember the bike / details but it was a dirt bike.

Nevertheless, not taking anything away from an excellent presentation. :thumbsup:

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Anyone can feel the difference just by touching the clutch cover on a bike with and without the Rekluse

This is your scientific process by which you have made this conclusion? :busted:

First-you have a 490 kit on this WR. Bigger motor produce more power=more heat. Same radiator size =less capacity per/cc. :ride:

Your oil cooler idea is pretty neat but you probably just made your heat problem worse by restricting airflow over your radiators as well as those guards as well. My prediction is your cooling issue willl remain. :busted:

Any auto clutch once engaged is no different than a stock manual clutch in that the plates are essentially locked and not slipping. So as long as you are not in the wrong gear and slipping the auto which you would have to do on the manual as well, you generate no more or less heat.

Possibly the ability to stop and restart in certain situations could create a condition that might generate more heat than a manual, but these THE ADVANTAGES to having the auto clutch in the first place.

If you are slipping the clutch more with an auto clutch it is because you are

a) slipping excessively due to riding style you've developed(look at changing it) :ride:

:ride: intentionally to maintain traction in a condition you wouldn't be able to without it.(this is the advantage) :thumbsup:

c) you have it setup incorrectly(fix it)

I have have been racing with an auto clutch for 4 years and have not noticed more or less heat in the engine as a result.

If you want to fix any overheat issue.

1) Take off the rad guards and put back the stock louvers

2) remove the oil cooler

3) run Zipty XF+_ or NPG+ coolant

This should put you back to a manageable condition.

If you want to get more transfer of heat from your motor , buy some oversized radiators from Fluidyne. Not a bad idea with the 490 kit. :ride:

Wow. :ride: You've been around long enough to know who Indy is, his great contributions to this site and his "encyclopedic", as one TT'er called it, knowledge of the WR. He may log more miles in a year on his bike than most do in their cars. From some of the things I've read, I would say his "scientific process" is a little better than "armchair". You may want to re-consider your doubts after re-reading this thread, especially:
If you are slipping the clutch more with an auto clutch it is because you are

:eek: intentionally to maintain traction in a condition you wouldn't be able to without it.(this is the advantage) :cry:

The Rekluse is a great product but it does generate more heat in the clutch and oil then a stock unit on technical long hill climbs.

Respect, man. :crazy::busted:

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Nice work Indy. You ought to think about selling those brackets. I'm anxious to see how the system works. I've been off my WR for a couple of months due to the heat, 100+, and the fact that I've been in the honeymoon period with my new streetbike...SC

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chasejj,

dan (indy) knows his stuff(he's learned most of it from me :cry: ) he's an engineer afterall :ride: and if you've really run a rekluse that long and have never been able to tell that they produce more heat in tight technical terrain then your even worse off than you portray yourself. i've run the rekluse for 3 yrs now,also run npg-r and fluidynes. and you can make your spit boil on the clutch cover after a long slow hillclimb,whereas normal 2-3 gear stuff will keep it cool enough to rest your hand a few seconds. i never noticed this much fluctuation in temp before the rekluse. mine is set up about as properly as it gets and i can also say that dan keeps his in tune also. he had the rekluse before the 490 kit and still had the heat problem. i plan to take dans idea and mount it behind my # plate(maybe drill a few holes in it for flow) so as not to block any air flow to the rads :thumbsup:

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Anyone can feel the difference just by touching the clutch cover on a bike with and without the Rekluse

This is your scientific process by which you have made this conclusion? :busted:

First-you have a 490 kit on this WR. Bigger motor produce more power=more heat. Same radiator size =less capacity per/cc. :ride:

Your oil cooler idea is pretty neat but you probably just made your heat problem worse by restricting airflow over your radiators as well as those guards as well. My prediction is your cooling issue willl remain. :busted:

Any auto clutch once engaged is no different than a stock manual clutch in that the plates are essentially locked and not slipping. So as long as you are not in the wrong gear and slipping the auto which you would have to do on the manual as well, you generate no more or less heat.

Possibly the ability to stop and restart in certain situations could create a condition that might generate more heat than a manual, but these THE ADVANTAGES to having the auto clutch in the first place.

If you are slipping the clutch more with an auto clutch it is because you are

a) slipping excessively due to riding style you've developed(look at changing it) :crazy:

:ride: intentionally to maintain traction in a condition you wouldn't be able to without it.(this is the advantage) :thumbsup:

c) you have it setup incorrectly(fix it)

I have have been racing with an auto clutch for 4 years and have not noticed more or less heat in the engine as a result.

If you want to fix any overheat issue.

1) Take off the rad guards and put back the stock louvers

2) remove the oil cooler

3) run Zipty XF+_ or NPG+ coolant

This should put you back to a manageable condition.

If you want to get more transfer of heat from your motor , buy some oversized radiators from Fluidyne. Not a bad idea with the 490 kit. :ride:

Honestly man &%$#@! is your problem? :ride:

This man takes considerable time to modify and also document his mod and you jump him? :busted::ride:

First he did the mod to benefit his bike and therefore himself. Then he went the extra step to DOCUMENT the process to help others in this community who may have the same setup.

You raining on his parade proves nothing more than you were either drunk and pissed off when you posted or you're just a jackass. I think both running concurrently is most likely. :cry:

BTW Indy great job on the mod and info to go w/ it….

Top Notch!

Semper Fi....carry on....

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I spent 5 days riding at Taylor Park / Cement Creek in Colorado and did 350 miles of hard riding. On long hill climbs the Rekluse would overheat the oil and the rad would boil over into the overflow tank. I would have to stop for 20 minutes before I could touch the clutch cover again. The combination of hot weather , thin air and brutally long climbs with a Rekluse is just too much for my bike. I will be testing the system with 5 days of high altitude hot weather riding in Idaho next week! I will update the results.

Oh man, I love that area. We have a condo in Crested Butte, and I have grown up riding there. We ride taylor over to Aspen, great fun. I am going back up on Aug. 11th. I'm so pumped!!!

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First off......Great idea and write up Indy.

That said.....the Californian does have a couple of good points, although they were not executed with very much social grace.

After looking at the pictures (and I'm not bagging, just giving some more ideas to the project) - the oil cooler does seem to block a large part of the left radiator. As NMountainman suggested - would mounting the oil tank cooler work better if it was located elsewhere....I was also thinking behind a numberplate [a vented Cyrca would work best]. Obviously not much of an option on the WR if you want to keep lights though.

Are smaller versions of the oil cooler tanks available? What about mounting 2 smaller tanks - one horizontally at the bottom of each radiator? :ride: It would increase airflow to the radiators as well as add symetry to the setup. And keep any additional weight lower to the ground.

It sounds like the larger radiators might also be a good idea.

Anyhow, awsome idea Indy, and great job on the brackets - thanks for another awsome post :thumbsup:

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Don't forget that in stock form, the oil has almost nothing to cool it off. Just the frame, and that sucks. It actually gets more cooling by flowing up to the head, which is partially cooled by the coolant. Then the coolant rejects all that heat to the radiators and ultimately to the air. The oil is serving 2 purposes in the engine/trans; 1=lube, 2= tranny/clutch coolant.

Think about auto trannys in cars. There is typically a trans fluid line that goes to/from the radiator, which rejects trans fluid heat to the coolant. Therfore, inside the tranny, the trans fluid temp must get above the coolant temp. Maybe 250, 300, 400???

Ever notice that old skool dirt track bikes, Harely's and some euro street bikes had VENTED, DRY clutches. The clutch has to get cooled somehow!

I don't have, nor have I ridden a bike with a Rekluse , but I would bet that even a properly 'set up' Rekluse will be 'slipping' more than you think, and WILL increase the overall operating temperature of the oil, and therefore the whole engine/tranny system. So, any additional 'oil cooling' is better than none. Not to mention, Indy increased his overall oil capacity by a few oz's. That alone should help with engine longevity, and he could decrease the oil change frequency too! (but I wouldn't)

Putting the aux oil cooler in front of the main radiators is going to have a negligble effect on 'blocking' air flow. These WR radiators are sooo oversized, and there is so much air going through there anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. He could have put the oil cooler behind the radiators and would have been just as well off. It's not like the air flowing through there is instantly increasing to 200degF. Your AC condensor on your truck is in front of your radiator, and we drive with the AC on, up hill, in stop/go traffic, in the desert, towing our trailers, or even going to work.

However, if I were Indy, I'd opt for hard lines (copper, brass, steel) to and from the aux cooler, or at least SS braided lines for protection.

Did I mention that I am an engineer too.

Thermal engineer.

Thats my .02$

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Ok, so my tone could have been more diplomatic.We are all big boys here. Statements were made and I took exception to them.

Pardon me for not knowing everyone's history. :ride:

Excuse me for not just accepting the notion that auto clutches(I lump Rekluse and Revloc together here) add to engine heat more or less than a standard manual clutch. What the assumptions listed here in Indy's defense all seem to detail is that the clutch will slip more. :thumbsup:

I would argue that they slip less than a typical operator would because the ball/ramp pressure plate is MUCH more precise in engaging the plates than a manual oprator and sprung pressure plate in ALL conditions. Regardless it would take an independent article in controlled conditions to state either position is correct. No amount of bullying by those in this thread is going to change that fact. :ride:

I will refrain from trying to sell anyone here with my qualifications as everyone seems so eager to do, I will just say they more than adequate to discuss this issue. :cry:

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I don't think the issue here is whether or not the auto-clutches and big bore kits overheat the engine. The fact that Indy has them on his bike is just that- the set of facts for his particular bike. I don't think Indy posted this thread for that purpose. This was posted (if I may speak for you Indy) to demonstrate one solution for adding an oil cooler to a WR. This is very useful information for a couple of reasons.

First, many of us ride in very hot weather or on slow technical trails. Anything to increase engine cooling is helpful. Placement of the oil cooler obviously has an affect on cooling, but I see where he's coming from mounting the cooler where he did, at least at first until he verifies that it actually works.

Second, many of us would like to have an increased oil capacity for extended rides or for dual-sporting applications. An oil cooler also serves this purpose, although I thought the capacity would have increased by more than 6 ounces.

I have been waiting for Indy to complete this mod to give me ideas how to do this to my bike. Job well done.

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