Night terrors with DS kit.

Okay so I guess I was being a bit naive to think that my 650R would be fine for riding on public roads at night with the stock stator & BD DS kit. I bought the bike with the kit installed & have no idea how old the battery that came with it is. The bike had not been used much prior to be buying it a couple weeks ago & the battery was discharged enough that it would not illuminate any lights with the engine off. So being the, um, uncautious guy that I am I rode to work expecting to have enough ride time to recharge the battery to ride home in the dark (I work evening shift). So all's well on the way to work 'cause I'm only using the running lights, but at least the flashers worked. Then on the way home, in the dark, about 2 miles from work the headlight begins to dim ominously. I now have another 15 miles, on back roads with no street lights to get home. I barely made it. The low beam kind of worked. Kind of like having a dime store flashlight taped to the front fender! Anyway I made it home safely and am pondering some changes. Actually I had already pondered them as I started the recent thread on DIY stator rewinding. Now I hope that a hight output stator will be adequate so that I DO NOT have to depend on a battery except for the unlikely inspection that might occur. Question: will the Ricky stator do this or should I make other changes? I know I'll have to modify the existing harness and I suppose those instructions will be included with the new stator. Anyone else out there had a similar experience. Thanks in advance!

Hey, sorry to hear about your scary ride home. Are you sure you are running a 35W headlight? Ride the bike hard with only the running lights on for a while. If the battery doesn't charge up, then it might be bad. I ran my bike with a 35W bulb, BD DSK and stock stator for a few years, and never had any problem with charging my battery.

You won't have to modify much at all to install the Ricky Stator. Recall, it has 2 coils. One of the coils will hook into your regulator/rectifier (just like your stock coil) and drive your dual sport kit. You could actually stop here if you wanted, and you would have roughly 2x the output that you have now, and your DSK will function just as it does now. The other coil just wouldn't be used.

Later, or whenever, you can add a small regulator, like the stock one, or you can buy a heftier one from Ricky Stator. Then you will unhook your headlight from the DSK and hook it up to the new regulator ->2nd lighting coil. Now, this will make it so that you headlight runs on AC (rather than the DC system on your DSK), right off the stator, such that your headlight will ONLY work when the bike is running. Here, the headlight has it's own output all to itself. You could upgrade your bulb to 55/60W or even 100W if you wanted without affecting the charge to your battery on the DC DSK side.

Your DSK handlebar switch will no longer control your headlight. You can hook up a new switch so that you can actuate the HI/LO beam on your headlight. Or you can use a relay. This gets a bit more complicated, and deserves it's own discussion by itself.

These extra regulators and stuff will start taking up alot of extra room that you don't have. This is why I opted to wind my own and stick with a single large coil. My dual headlights are 55W single filament (no HI/LO beam) so no need for a switch or relay, they are just ON, and cars see me coming a mile away. They are aimed down enough so that cars don't flash me at night. There are benefits and disadvantages to single vs. dual coils, so to each his own.

some pics of my dually headlights, quality isn't so good...

http://members.cox.net/snaggletto/XR650R-SM%20lights

http://members.cox.net/snaggletto/headlight-closeup

Also remember, you CAN rewind your own. It doesn't sound like you are wanting to drive a real high powered headlight (100W+), just maybe a 55/60W and keep your battery charged. The 18awg winding that I mentioned in the other thread should work just fine for you. You won't have to bypass the DSK at all, no extra switches or regulators, no new wiring or anything. Simply rewind and resolder to the wires that go from your stator to under the seat. You can't really screw up and harm anything, it will either work or it won't work, no smoke or fire. It really is quite easy, and will only take you a couple hours IF you REALLY take your time. Between the article I posted a link to in the other thread, and my detailed help, you WILL succeed.

If you want "insurance", try to find another stock stator on Ebay (I don't see any right now). Keep your stock one as is and wind the other one. But really, it's not that hard, you only have one coil, with two ends to deal with, and it doesn't even matter which one goes where. All you need is the 18awg wire, epoxy and a cheap soldering iron and solder and a bit of patience. Let me know...

Man, once again I appreciate the time you've spent answering my question. I guess I've nothing to lose if I try to rewind my stock stator. If It does not do what I want I'll just buy the Ricky stator. I'm not looking for hard core lighting that will offend in traffic as I will be using the bike to commute alot. Just want to have enough output to run the DS kit without depending on the battery & have just enough left over for some hand warmers. One thing I did not do is check the wattage of the buld in the headlight. The gut I bought the bike from had a new headlight element in the package which I assumed was same as original. All was well until the headlight was on at night. I'll get to work. Thanks again!

I just installed a Baja Designs DSK on my pig. I had a rewound stator that I did myself which worked well but I never measured the output and I KNEW the Rickystator was 200-225+ watts (Rickystator states its acutally higher than the advertised 200w, baja-designs states they are higher than rickystator b/c they have 225 which is higher than Ricky stator 200w, Who knows)! That way I was able to get the 90/100w bulb with my DSK and I can see down any unlit Dark as midnight road! This doesn't mean you can't wind your own b/c with the directions it should give you close if not the same output in Single output! (I saved mine for backup)

Now here is where there is a little difference.

Dual vs single output;

Rickystator and a Baja Designs rewound stator is Dual output (Could be made single but why?) but Dual means it has 2 x 100w, but for a Baja Designs DSK that orginally had a single output stock stator you will have to get or make a part that they wire together which is a Relay and regulator/rectifyer to switch between the two outputs or combine them for highbeam with Running lights (I believe it was $11 w/ DSK purchase). I'm not 100% sure b/c I haven't examined it too well and I just got it on last week but I believe it has 1x100w output goes dedicated to headlight in High beams and the other 1x100w goes to the rest of the DSK and regular beams/running lights. How this is benificial...I'm no electrical engineer but I assume that its better than 200w full time everywhere?

So in your situation. Battery should charge with 35w output. Maybe the previous owner had too large of a bulb when he got his DSK b/c it draws more than the stator can supply and draws off the battery in addition.

a) You can rewind your stator and see if that helps with the demand for power.

:ride: Replace battery and see if the old one wasn't taking a charge. I'm sure Baja designs can tell you how to test if it is charging correctly.

c) send in your stator for baja designs and let them wind it but Rickystator didn't require the stator and you could ride until it arrived...(I DON"T REMEBER PRICE) and they will ask you Dual or Single output (Single just combines both leads for 2 windings in one connector so could be seperated if you needed) But if you got it from baja designs maybe they could throw-in the relay/regulator/rectifyer at a discount if it is more than I quoted. (Have to call and wheel and deal)

I know you didn't ask but incase you were wondering why I went Rickystator after rewinding my own...

1) b/c Before I just had a headlight and an 55W bulb. I knew that I could wind my own and get it close enough to power it alone, b/c it wasn't anywhere near what the output was supposed to accomplish incase I didn't use the same gauge wire, didn't have enough winds somewhere etc. Or if I just plain messed it up. No loss. Now I was going on the street I needed a known output to charge the battery and run the equipment at the same time.

2) when I decided to drop the money on the DSK I knew what size bulb I was getting and the output that was recommended and I liked the idea of putting a new high-output stator in with the other new components for the DSK.

3) Myself I had some electrical issues in the past that ended up being minor loose wires or connections but in diagnosing the problem Since I had a Stator that I rewound Everyone I talked to wanted to blame it once they heard that I rewound it. (IT never was the problem) I couldn't get anyone at my dealer/ or online Tech support to give ideas other than it b/c they had no idea of my quality of work. (I didn't either b/c I had never done it before) But it worked for 3 years and worked till I took it off

4) it was single output and the BajaDesigns salesman talked me into needing dual output over single...(I may have gotten dupped when it cost me $11 for their part and the Price of the stator I didn't buy from them)

Ok that is my opinion and nothing but, (Maybe a load of BS)

JT

Thanks as well for the input. I think my primary problem is an old battery that has not been fully charged as after just a 10 min. ride I could run the lights for awhile with the engine off. That and I believe the replacement headlight bulb is of a higher wattage that originally came with the DSK. Nonetheless I would like to have sufficient stator ouput to run all of the electrical stuff with the engine running without ever having to depend on the battery. Was the extra part you got from BD just a way to separate the headlight from the rest of the DSK wiring harness? When you ran your own rewound stator did you just hook it up like it was originally? Did you rewind your stator using the original directions or did you rewind all 10 poles with 18awg, 32-34 wraps per the updated guidelines? Thanks in advance.

Craig's Homepage has this page with options, links and instructions on Headlight/DSK power needs and options.

Was the extra part you got from BD just a way to separate the headlight from the rest of the DSK wiring harness?

If I am understanding your question, not exactally.

Its a way of feeding in 2 seperate outputs as you understand but the are fed in as follows.

One output (100w of 200w) goes to DSK AND low beam-Headlight b/c 100w is ample. B/c DSK doesn't require that much so while running running off of stator only AND charging Battery.

2nd output goes to bright light so when you switch on the bright light and have a 100w bulb like I do it has 100w of dedicated power for it (which means less dimming at idle b/c the rest of the kit isn't drawing off of it).

The "Part" is a relay which when powered by the Bright light switch allows the 2nd 100w from a second regulator into the headlight. Someone could probably tell you how to make one. I didn't pay close enough attention b/c they had it wired in to my kit when it arrived so I didn't have to concern with it so I'd have to break down the wire loomb to see how it is wired in.

If you rewound your own and had a Single output you would have it hooked in as it is now. It would mean that you have 200w regulated to your entire DSK which ultimately totals near the same but that just means that when you do have a load on it it will draw from the entire system instead of just one output. So more constant power with dual output.

Again not 100% necessary, you'll have to decide for yourself. I'd recommend calling Baja Designs b/c they are the makers of your DSK kit and ask them EXACTLY what it does, and if you needed or could benifit from it b/c I'm not an expert I'm just deducting from where I hooked it all up.

It was $10-11 for me to run as dual output over single and it was recommended since I am running a 90/100w bulb.

When you ran your own rewound stator did you just hook it up like it was originally?

Yes

Did you rewind your stator using the original directions or did you rewind all 10 poles with 18awg, 32-34 wraps per the updated guidelines?

I rewound mine back in 2001, I don't know when it was changed.

I did rewind all the coils and I did coun't the wraps so I'd do them all the same but I don't think it had a specific number. As far as the gauge of the wire it was 16 or 18 too long ago to remember. I still have some wire but I can't tell by looking....The old instructions said to hook the outputs up wrong but it didnt' make sense to me so I didn't do it that way and I hooked it up the way the updated version says.

You will benifit from a rewound stator (Whether you do it or buy one) even if it is the battery b/c it will also mean more power at lower RPM's So brighter light at slower speads such as tight woods riding! I assume it means faster charging of battery on shorter trips as well.

If you trust yourself, have the down time with your bike, and can justify the cost rewind your own. I thought it cost $30 in parts at the time. Maybe someone can even tell you how to wire up a dual output? It certainly can't be anymore difficult!

Just my opinion!

JT

Cool. I think I'll get going on the stator project tomorrow. I understand the the stock DSK has fairly small guage wire which may not handle the power needed for a 100w headlight, so I'll probably stick with a 55w. That & a set of handwarmers is all I want. The night of my misshap the ouput of the stock headlight was OK so no big changes there yet. I enjoy wrenching on things nearly as much as riding (OK, not quite) so the stator rewind should be a neat project. Thanks for your time. God bless.

Thanks as well for the input. I think my primary problem is an old battery that has not been fully charged as after just a 10 min. ride I could run the lights for awhile with the engine off.

Just a word of caution. I have a BD DS kit on my R.. it's great, but the

connecters suck. I have replaced the connector between the stator and the

stock wiring, it melted itself (bad / loose connection)

I have also replaced the connectors to the battery (just he yellow wires)

they were poorly attached to the wires and often caused an disconnect of

the charging system, which would cause the battery to run dry.

Since replacing there connectors everything has been fine.

Get yourself a circut tester and check the connectors out.

I was wondering about the connectors too. I don't trust anything completely but solder & heat shrink but connectors are a necessary evil in order to service components. Anybody know of a high quality connector that doesn't deteriorate with use, is waterproof & corrosion resistant? There's this cool little electrical/electronic supply store here in town called Radar electric that has all kinds of unusual, trick little stuff. I'm going there tomorrow to pick up some magnet wire. If I find something I'll post it here.

Man, once again I appreciate the time you've spent answering my question. I guess I've nothing to lose if I try to rewind my stock stator. If It does not do what I want I'll just buy the Ricky stator. I'm not looking for hard core lighting that will offend in traffic as I will be using the bike to commute alot. Just want to have enough output to run the DS kit without depending on the battery & have just enough left over for some hand warmers. One thing I did not do is check the wattage of the buld in the headlight. The gut I bought the bike from had a new headlight element in the package which I assumed was same as original. All was well until the headlight was on at night. I'll get to work. Thanks again!

Snaggle is great but I may have missed something. Ill add my 2 cebts, if you go with a new battery from batteries plus, the 2.9ah gel cel the BD system, and you got the rectifire/regulator you will not have a problem. But like snaggle said, you really need to up-grade your stator. Do it right and but the ricky stator as you have the stocker for backup-forsale. And you run it in dual output mode running the headlights (up to 100 watts!) on one side and the rest of the bikes electrical system on the other 100w output. On the second output which goes thru your rec/reg you get fairly clean 12-14VDC out of so you can run any accessories you run in a car off that output.

Hypersthenos,

Find out what wattage (volts X amps) or just amps that the grip heater system you have will use. Also, see if you can find out what wattage bulb you are currently using, and what wattage bulb you want to use. This will make things easier...

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