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Ga426owner

EFI at the Japanese Nationals

27 posts in this topic

Radio control is next. We all stand on a the scoring tower as we control the bikes from there. Injuries will be a thing of the past

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Traction control? That doesn't seem appropriate on an offroad bike, street yeah, but offroad?

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COOL,, F.I. and tracton control...
Traction control is illegal in the ama. Don't expect to see it!

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i personally am excited about fuel injection, you could change pipes without rejetting, ride at any altitude any weather condition without rejetting. im curious to see how they do it without a battery. i love technology!!! :thumbsup:

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Don't think it is going to make tuning so easy. Instead of buying brass you will be buying a $300 Dyno Jet Powercommander and booking time on a dyno. I have a fuel injected sportbike. Every time you make changes to intake or exhaust system adjustments have to be made to the computer to maximise your efficiency. The computers DO NOT adjust themselves!

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kxman's right, these injection systems are pretty basic speed/density systems. Unless they use an airflow meter (not too likely) you'll have to reprogram everytime you change the intake or exhaust.

I'm looking forward to EFI on dirtbikes too, but it's going to take quite awhile to sort out the bugs. There's also the weight factor, it's hard to beat the weight of a carb vs. a fuel pump, battery and all the electronics for EFI. The carburation on these late model dirtbikes is pretty darn good, SO much better than they used to be. One advantage of EFI that will be nice is fuel mileage should be a fair amount better.

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EFI is out there on dirt bikes already, I know Gas Gas has it and maybe some other small Euro market bikes? It's become the norm on street bikes and it will be on dirt bikes sooner than you think. I'm sure before it became common on cars the same things were being said about that.

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Not disputing the fact that it will soon be the norm on dirtbikes. Just trying to warn people that the systems used on street bikes and more than likely on dirtbikes do not compensate for mods you make to your engine. So if you think you can change pipes, cams etc. and your bike will forever be jetted correctly that is wrong.

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You mean I wouldn't be able to juice it up with a Super Chip???

Look at all that dead air behind the barrel! Clean!

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On bikes it is called a Power Commander. Plugs into your laptop and you download different maps or have one custom made.

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Though the above statements are true. Processor technology is increasing also. It is just a matter of time before FI is self adjusting on bikes. Hopefully it will never go by radio, Johnny!

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Here’s the biggest two factors for EFI on dirtbikes (IMHO), they are cost and CARB/EPA. Marketing is also a factor but not as big as those two. Processor technology has been good enough for closed loop fuel injection for over 20 years, it just keeps getting smaller and faster.

The kind of FI we all want, closed loop with a Mass Airflow meter and an 02 sensor, costs a lot of money in parts and R&D. That’s the only way you’re going to be able to swap pipes and intake without reprogramming or losing performance. I’m not into street bikes, but I think BMW is the only one with that kind of system. Their parts and R&D access is a little bigger than Yamaha ’s I’d think. Their bikes cost a lot more too. That leads me to a prediction… I’m going to say that Honda will walk away from Yamaha when it comes to who gets the EFI bikes running the best first. Just a guess but Honda has a lot of experience and parts access from the auto side of the company, where EFI has been highly refined over the years.

Eventually we’ll all be riding EFI bikes, and they’ll be way better, but it’s going to take time, the EPA and CARB forcing it, and higher priced bikes. I went through it all with cars, everybody thought the world of decent running cars (much less muscle cars) was coming to an end in the ‘70’s. 30 years later and I’m working on 400hp production cars that you can take from the showroom to the strip and turn 13’s. Not to mention GM’s 500hp Z06, compare that car to a ’77 ‘Vette! (About 250hp if you could get it running right.) And not only do they haul #ss, they get pretty good fuel mileage and run nice and smooth too.

That was all (ok, maybe not all, but mostly) because the EPA forced the automakers to do it. Hopefully it won’t take dirtbikes 30 years to evolve through this process. In the mean time, we may be worrying less about my stock YZ tank not having enough range for Clear Creek, and more about the EFI fuel pump quitting when I’m 30 miles away from the truck. :thumbsup:

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The Power Commander does not reprogram the EFI, it FOOLS it. Harley's RaceTuner is much better. You are allowed to actually go in and reprogram the ECU, much like the Cannondale unit. I have been patiently waiting for a programmable EFI as IMO this will give the trained tuner absolute control on how well his motor runs. Not so good for the everyday rider as it will caost him $$ to properly tune their bike. Plug in downloads will help, but they cannot keep up with the endless combinations of pipes, heads, cams, etc. But I can't wait!!! Tdub

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Unfortunately it does seem to take federal force to get American manufacturers to change where as the Japanese and others seem to enjoy the competition. The bikes will have it sooner than you think. All of the bike manufacturers build FI outboards and watercraft so the tech is there already as are most parts. How hard would it be to have an O2, Temp, Humidity, Altitude, Accelerometer and Airflow sensor in a small box with suction cups for temporary use during reprogrammming? Simple. Plug it into a port, run it down the road and it remaps everything for the latest mod. Hell rent it!

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closed loop with a Mass Airflow meter and an 02 sensor

Well, thats two things i hope we doesn´t see on a dirtbike .... :thumbsup:

A MAF is definetly to fragile to put on a offroad bike, and the closed loop 02 operation is useless on a a bike that built to make max hp (all cars give the 02 sensor the finger and goes open loop as soon as you floor it). If you have a really good map (which probably will come "out of the box") a SB 02 sensor is worthless.

A WB 02 sensor needs a control device, and heating, wich would require a battery ...

an simple, MAP based EFI with a pretty large map is what we need ... :thumbsup:

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Sport bikes are several years ahead of dirt bikes when it comes to the latest tech. being applied. My 2005 GSX-R1000 has 2 injectors per cylinder, 2 sets of butterflies per cylinder and a wealth of electronics. This bike puts out 160 horsepower to the rear wheel stock off the show room floor. Yet it is not running a closed loop F. I. system. Not sure why they haven't adopted this yet but when they do it will show up on the sport bikes long before the dirt bikes.

I am not debating the fact that fuel injection will be coming to our dirtbikes. Hell, 10 years from now it will probably be on every Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine. Just warning the people that are looking forward to a bike that adjusts itself so it is always running perfectly that ain't happening in the next year or two and certainly there will be a price that someone has to pay. In the mean time i am very happy with my 06 YZ450F, carb. and all.

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there will be a price that someone has to pay. In the mean time i am very happy with my 06 YZ450F, carb. and all.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::confused:

Jets are cheap.

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