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david857

Yamaha stainless steel oil filters

36 posts in this topic

work really good ,easy clean up, after my engine blew up i tossed it cuz of the shaving, bought about 100 paper filters since i work at a dealership for around the same price, but will get another after i use up the paper ones

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Installed one on the second oil change on my YZ400. Took it in after 5 plus years of abuse to have the valves adjusted and the shop owner said the valves were all in spec and the inside of the cylinder was clean and cams were in really good shape. I say that has to do with the filter and somewhat frequent oil changes. Scotts is making one for my Raptor and I have installed them on every four stroke bike/quad I've owned.

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Installed one on the second oil change on my YZ400. Took it in after 5 plus years of abuse to have the valves adjusted and the shop owner said the valves were all in spec...

Sorry, but I just had to comment on this. No fancy oil filter or frequency of oil changes would be responsible for the valves still being in spec. Valves go out of spec mainly because the valve faces and seats wear with usage. These areas are not lubricated by the oil system so a filter or clean oil would not prolong their life. They wear in relation to miles ridden and how hard, and in the case of exhaust valves, proper jetting (continued leaness causes high combustion temps that shorten valve life). Stainless oil filters aren't necessarily better, just more convenient. In fact, there is data showing that a quality paper filter can screen out particles down to 1-2 microns, whereas a comparable steel mesh filter was capable of only 8-9 microns.

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Stainless oil filters aren't necessarily better, just more convenient. In fact, there is data showing that a quality paper filter can screen out particles down to 1-2 microns, whereas a comparable steel mesh filter was capable of only 8-9 microns.

The actual specs for the mesh used in Scotts filters is 35 microns "absolute". This indicates that the largest spherical object that will pass is 35 microns. A micron is one millionth of a meter, or one thousandth of a millimeter, or, in English, .000039". For reference, very finely ground sand is about 60 microns, and a white blood cell is around 25.

Paper filters are not rated by absolute numbers because if they were,they would have to be rated at something like 100 microns. They allow some material as large as that to pass. Not much, and not often, unless bypassing, but enough that they cannot be said to "absolutely" stop it. OTOH, they will filter out a certain amount of debris as fine as 10 microns. They are rated using Beta numbers. In this method, a known amount of debris of a certain size is added to the oil run into a filter. The amount that passes through is then measured. A filter that earns a rating of 93/35 will have stopped 93% of all 35 micron debris. But not all. A really good paper filter can have a rating of 80/20, which seems pretty impressiveuntil you find out its numbers on 40 micron debris are only 95/40.

Add the problem of oil flow restriction leading to bypassing when cold, and a paper filter suddenly doesn't look so good.

As to convenience, I personally think that removing and discarding the filter is much more convenient than spending 10 minutes properly cleaning a Scotts, but it doesn't give me as good a filter, IMO.

The point about valve face wear is right on, though.

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The actual specs for the mesh used in Scotts filters is 35 microns "absolute". This indicates that the largest spherical object that will pass is 35 microns. A micron is one millionth of a meter, or one thousandth of a millimeter, or, in English, .000039". For reference, very finely ground sand is about 60 microns, and a white blood cell is around 25.

Paper filters are not rated by absolute numbers because if they were,they would have to be rated at something like 100 microns. They allow some material as large as that to pass. Not much, and not often, unless bypassing, but enough that they cannot be said to "absolutely" stop it. OTOH, they will filter out a certain amount of debris as fine as 10 microns. They are rated using Beta numbers. In this method, a known amount of debris of a certain size is added to the oil run into a filter. The amount that passes through is then measured. A filter that earns a rating of 93/35 will have stopped 93% of all 35 micron debris. But not all. A really good paper filter can have a rating of 80/20, which seems pretty impressiveuntil you find out its numbers on 40 micron debris are only 95/40.

Add the problem of oil flow restriction leading to bypassing when cold, and a paper filter suddenly doesn't look so good.

As to convenience, I personally think that removing and discarding the filter is much more convenient than spending 10 minutes properly cleaning a Scotts, but it doesn't give me as good a filter, IMO.

The point about valve face wear is right on, though.

Thank you.

But both of you are saying that there is oil fed to the cam lobes and buckets?

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Thank you.

But both of you are saying that there is oil fed to the cam lobes and buckets?

Yes, but that is not where the wear is coming from that leads to the need to reshim.

The valve faces and seats wear far faster than the cam and buckets. Remember, we're running engines that can require rebuilds in as little as 20 hours, and many require a top end before 10,000 miles.

That's not cam/bucket. If it were, then we would not be getting 200,000 and 300,000 miles out of automobiles.

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Yes, but that is not where the wear is coming from that leads to the need to reshim.

The valve faces and seats wear far faster than the cam and buckets. Remember, we're running engines that can require rebuilds in as little as 20 hours, and many require a top end before 10,000 miles.

That's not cam/bucket. If it were, then we would not be getting 200,000 and 300,000 miles out of automobiles.

While yes the valve and seat wear causing in this case tighter clearence, it's the normal wear of the bucket, shim and valve stem that should keep all clearences in check. Poor tuning, high temps and such will cause will cause tight valves. Poor maint. will cause loose valves. The fact that my oil comes out clean when I change it and the top end shows little wear and tear, means that filter was worth every dime. While it isn't the only reason it sure doesn't hurt.

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While yes the valve and seat wear causing in this case tighter clearence, it's the normal wear of the bucket, shim and valve stem that should keep all clearences in check.
I hate to differ on this, but in the Yamaha DOHC, 5 titanium valve engine there is very little wear that occurs to those parts when the engine is maintained and operated properly. The bucket and shim do not experience much in the way of movement to cause wear and the valve stem is so hard that it doesn't wear much either. Add to this the comparatively light spring pressure with this setup and you'll be lucky to see much, if any, wear at all. Even a typically high wear area like where the cam lobe contacts the bucket is negligible with this design.
Poor tuning, high temps and such will cause will cause tight valves.
Indeed, because it will hasten wear on the valve seats and faces and hasten metal fatigue.
Poor maint. will cause loose valves.
About the only thing that could cause that is premature wear of the cam lobe and/or bucket face from grit in the oil or frequent over-revving, which would take some serious abuse and time to do.
The fact that my oil comes out clean when I change it and the top end shows little wear and tear, means that filter was worth every dime. While it isn't the only reason it sure doesn't hurt.
The Yamaha dry sump system is pretty good at keeping contaminants out and regular oil changes with quality oil probably has more to do with longevity than whatever filter media you're using. When I referred to convenience of the stainless mesh units, I meant the fact that by having one you are always ready to do an oil change since it only requires cleaning and reinstallation. This means you are more likely to do them regularly than if you have to plan ahead and make sure you have a correct paper filter on hand first. More than anything, regular oil changes and good oil will prolong the life of your Yamaha 4-stroke. :applause:

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Please see my Sig, I don't have titanium valves.

Sorry we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I will keep my mixture a little rich, my coolant flushed, my oil changed and continue to run my Scotts filter. I will keep the bike to see if I ever have to do a top end or a vavle adjustment.

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Disagree if you want. That won't change the facts. The reason you haven't needed to do much to correct your valve clearance is because you have a YZ400, which, along with the '00 426, is well known to have some of the most durable valves and seats ever installed in any engine. A lot of them are just now starting to need their first adjustments ever.

The facts are that engine oil does not protect the valve faces and seats, which is where the wear occurs that tightens clearances. The valve lifter and cam lobe wear in a properly maintained YZF is negligible, and any significant wear at these points is only due to contaminated oil or lube system failure. As far as your oil coming out clean, maybe it does, and please understand that I run Scotts filters too, but until you have an analysis of a used sample done, you don,t know what you're talking about, really.

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As far as your oil coming out clean, maybe it does, and please understand that I run Scotts filters too, but until you have an analysis of a used sample done, you don,t know what you're talking about, really.

Ditto. One of the guys on Tundrasolutions changes his oil as soon as it "looks dirty", which he says is about every 2500.

Looks dirty? In my Diesel, I'd be changing it every 500 miles while the onboard 'puter says it's good to nearly 10k.

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