CRF450x vs. WR450f -- Tight Trails Weapon

My opinions are based entirely around tight technical trails, with a riders of equal ability. Once the trails open to quad width or roads, the advantage flip flops. It is a compromise really. The name of the game in South Eastern style Enduros is how you do in the tight test sections. We don't usually get open stretches where we have to ride fast and hard for more than 200 yards. So you give up the high speed handling for the low speed nasty stuff handling. I am sure that out in the south west, it is just the opposite. Ideally, a man would own one of each to cover all the disciplines that he would face during a season.

Ideally, a man would own one of each to cover all the disciplines that he would face during a season.

How do I explain that to my wife? Can you come over and enlighten her? I'll pay for the plane ticket.

Jerry

I don't think the phrase "CRF450X vs. WR450f--Tight Trails Weapon" is possible. Neither of these heavy and over powered bikes are close to being a "Tight Trails Weapon". More like a "Tight Trails Handicap". I am not being funny either. If you ride tight technical single track, you will be smoked in the tight sections by a 2 stroke ridden by a rider of equal ability. I know, my previous bike was a 250F and I now have a KX250 2 stroke. There is no comparison in the handling department. End of story.

people say that, but plenty of guys go ridiculously fast in the tight stuff on 450's and 525's. in my personal (biased) opinion, the 450 is only a handicap at high levels of competition, or if the rider is small, weak, out-of-shape, or not very skilled. i am basing this opinion on riding lots of ktm525's and a husaberg 650 (as well as my own 300exc, 250sx and klx330). i seemed to go just as fast in the tight stuff, and never really noticed the weight difference unless i had to get off and drag. i was taught to steer mostly with the footpegs, so i don't really use my arms for all that much of steering input, even at low speeds. dunno if that makes much of a difference.

in my experience switching bikes, from my 250 or 300 to a 525 4-stroke, each of us has generally continued going about the same speed. if there is a difference, i don't think it was enough to be noticeable. certainly not 'smoked'.

of course your mileage may vary.. i suppose riding style and subtle particularities of terrain may favor one bike slightly over another, but i think it's a pretty slight difference.

Speaking of mileage did y'all see that GNCC in florida where Doug Henry ran the race with only 2 gas stops on his 450 thumper and Jula Salmenin (sp) had to stop at least twice as much on his smoker?

Disagree with the lightweights (Bandit), I've owned nothing but WR's and I ride nothing but nasty, technical, scary Pacific NW single track, (the Southeast does not have mountains........) anyway I ride with a group of fellow hardcore racers and free riders on varying types of machines and the only time I find myself at a disadvantage is in the "pack & carry" sections. With proper suspension set up and good ergonomics I think you can run with anyone on a bigbore 4 stroke.

Having said all of that, I ride with a guy who's 235-245lbs on an EXC200 :bonk: and he can be hard to keep up with most of the time so it really goes to show all of us that it's probably 99.9% rider most of the time but those of you that feel you may be at a disadvantage on your 450 in the tight and technical, I say take your man pill and try a little harder, ride more, scare your self once in a while, keep the bike maintained and go out there and win :applause:

You are out of luck...my wife isn't buying my "dual bike" needs either. Let me know if you get it figured out ok?

A fast guy will go fast on anything. That is a given. I can't ride more than 45 weekends a year. That is enough riding. I took all man pills right before I made my first reply, just so I can defend myself against all you real manly men riding 450s. :cry:

The southeast does have mountains, just not the Snoqualmie Pass type. Lots of rocks in North Alabama, Arkansas, Tennesse, and Texas. Did you catch the Last Man Standing? Not too technical there huh? :bonk:

I lived in Olympia for 3 years. I wasn't into bikes back then, boy I sure wish I had been! Must be great riding up there. Seems to have a little of everything to ride in Washington state.

I know I said those things in a 4 stroke forum, so I don't expect anyone to agree with me. It is what it is though. There really is no comparison in the handling department between the two. You can claim that you do this or your buddies can do that, but the difference is stunning b/t the two. I know that someone who isn't used to riding a 2 stoke won't just hop on it and haul ass, but he will notice the difference in handling right off the bat.

Guys,

I am not bashing the 450, the only reason I am in here is b/c I am looking for a bike that I can dual sport for Baja/Colorado/Idaho 3 or 4 times a year and race somewhat competitively in our Enduros. It would be a compromise for me. I didn't say a 450 couldn't be rode fast in tight technical trails, just that it would be a whole lot easier, more enjoyable, and cheaper on a 300exc or GasGas 300. :applause:

You are going to need a super tanker gas tank on a 300- 2 stroke for dual sporting in the Baja! Well known that 4 strokes are better on gas! You need a big range for the Baja even if you dont race. :bonk: If it came down to having only one bike with your criteria I would take a four stroke and suffer a little speed or energy in the tight stuff. How much more money are you going to win racing on the 2 stroke over the 4 stroke? :applause:

indy i have good news the grades are looking good so far

Way to go Taylor! :applause::bonk::cry: Keep it up! Moab is just around the corner! :cry:

Indy, that is exactly what I said. I am giving up some performance, in exchange for the better dual sport. I have an IMS 3.2 on my KX310 and I can get about 60 miles out of it. I want to be able to go at least 100 miles. On my 250F I got about 85 miles out of a 3.1 gal IMS. What are you getting on your 450?

In my dreams, that I will ever win a dime riding dirt bikes. That is why I want to get a dual sport. I still want to race, I am a racing junkie, but I also want to go exploring. I want to go meet you guys in Moab. That sort of stuff. Trying to decided b/t a Husky TE450 or a WR450. Right now, b/c of the "street legal out the box" thing, the Husky is leading in the clubhouse.

Anyhow, were getting off topic.

Indy, that is exactly what I said. I am giving up some performance, in exchange for the better dual sport. I have an IMS 3.2 on my KX310 and I can get about 60 miles out of it. I want to be able to go at least 100 miles. On my 250F I got about 85 miles out of a 3.1 gal IMS. What are you getting on your 450?

In my dreams, that I will ever win a dime riding dirt bikes. That is why I want to get a dual sport. I still want to race, I am a racing junkie, but I also want to go exploring. I want to go meet you guys in Moab. That sort of stuff. Trying to decided b/t a Husky TE450 or a WR450. Right now, b/c of the "street legal out the box" thing, the Husky is leading in the clubhouse.

Anyhow, were getting off topic.

I ride with alot guys that have Husky's 05' and newer and yes the out of the box dual sport is pretty cool because they are truly the most off road oriented dual sports I've seen and I am here to tell that the 510 RIPS, BUT, and there is always a but...... I have never seen more failures of parts and performance from any one mfg. in my life! Nothing consistent except dropping a valve but you name it, broken kick starters, oil lines ripping off, over heating on single track, just plain stopping and not startying for no apparent reason only to re start and run fine 10 minutes later :bonk: When they work they work great, infact I actually like that 510 a little better than my 450 as far as performance and handling goes but it will be a few years of demonstrated reliability before I buy one!

Get off topic......... thats what it's all about. If you ever get back up to WA state on one of your adventures look me up through www.stumpjumpers.org we'll go out ride some real tight and technical like this -

http://stumpjumpers.smugmug.com/photos/45193045-L.jpg

Note the husky and WR leaning up against wall on LH side. Taken in Manashtash area, east side of Snoqualmie Pass :applause:

Indy, that is exactly what I said. I am giving up some performance, in exchange for the better dual sport. I have an IMS 3.2 on my KX310 and I can get about 60 miles out of it. I want to be able to go at least 100 miles. On my 250F I got about 85 miles out of a 3.1 gal IMS. What are you getting on your 450?

In my dreams, that I will ever win a dime riding dirt bikes. That is why I want to get a dual sport. I still want to race, I am a racing junkie, but I also want to go exploring. I want to go meet you guys in Moab. That sort of stuff. Trying to decided b/t a Husky TE450 or a WR450. Right now, b/c of the "street legal out the box" thing, the Husky is leading in the clubhouse.

Anyhow, were getting off topic.

I agree with your evaluation completely! :cry: The WR450 is a great bike with easy to get parts. I am see no advantage to buying a Husky over any Jap 4 or KTM. I am leary of their ability to support the US market and availability of aftermarket accessories. If you get the Yamaha consider a set of 22mm offset triple clamps on a new stem for tight woods (swap back to stock for Baja). :applause: I get 90 to 120 miles per tank on the Acerbis 3.3 gallon tank! :cry: See you in Moab! I will be out there the last week of March and April 19th thru April 22nd for the TT ride! :bonk:

Keep an eye on our info and ride details and sign up for the email list at:

http://wr450.com/ttmoabride/

its all in the setup :applause: heck i ride a yz 450(4spd even ) in some of the tightest crap you can imagine,and blow away my buddy on his 300 punkin' !

and 85 miles on a 250f w/3.1 gals? i get 80 riding hard out of 2.8 gal on my 450,i think sumthin's wrong there :bonk:

i get 80 riding hard out of 2.8 gal on my 450,i think sumthin's wrong there

That don't sound like tight trail riding to me. :applause:

That don't sound like tight trail riding to me. :applause:

no i believe they were just talking average fuel mileage there bam bam. :bonk:

its all in the setup heck i ride a yz 450

Honestly I would love to try your bike. A friend of mine had the first year 450,

mind you it was totally stock and it was completely the wrong bike for the riding we were doing. I could not wait to get off it. I felt the best thing he could have done was buy a flywheel wieght. The power was so brutal and uncontrolable in the tight stuff and would stall easily when you let the revs drop.He has since switched to a pumpkin 300 and is not struggling all day.

What kind of riding do you plan on doing in moab? I have a large group going around the time you have stated. We are all pretty good on our bikes so we were looking forward to some pretty technical stuff. When we were there last time we hit poision spider, hells revenge, and alot of other well known trails but frankly they were to easy so do you have any suggestions? :applause:

Honestly I would love to try your bike. A friend of mine had the first year 450,

mind you it was totally stock and it was completely the wrong bike for the riding we were doing. I could not wait to get off it. I felt the best thing he could have done was buy a flywheel wieght. The power was so brutal and uncontrolable in the tight stuff and would stall easily when you let the revs drop.He has since switched to a pumpkin 300 and is not struggling all day.

i guess with my size its not as much a struggle,in fact i seem to struggle more on smaller lighter bikes! i can't ride my buddies 300,it just doesn't feel planted,even after a bunch of tuning. i'm going to concentrate on more HS racing this spring as i feel i've finally got a competative setup(i know a real rider can ride anything,but i don't see too many people racing out of the box machines) its alot of work and slightly expensive,but i have almost as much fun tweaking as i do riding :applause: i wish you could ride it,very sweet bike. but i don't have any plans of being up there anytime soon. you ever come down to ride?

i seem to struggle more on smaller lighter bikes! i can't ride my buddies 300,it just doesn't feel planted,even after a bunch of tuning.

That's exactly how I feel. I struggled on my 300, not because of the motor so much but the bike just felt nervous all the time, with a fourstroke the bike feels planted on the ground. The weight of the fourstroke doesn't bother me at all..

I ride a CRF 450 and my riding partner rides a WR 426. I do not have a wide ration tranny so some of the tight stuff is more of a challenge. I have riden his bike several times and it is a good ride. However, his suspension is very soft and when we get into whooped out trails and hills the soft suspension gets the best of him. My Honda tracks better in the knarly stuff and the setup was easier as well as getting the jetting dailed in. The Yamaha is a good bike and I would take it over any other bike except the Honda. The reliability of the Yamaha is great but I prefer the Honda. The motor is better suited for the riding I do and the bike is bullet proof. I race enduro's and some MX. My next bike will the the 450X, the wide ratio tranny and the electric start make a good bike even better. I have ridden Husky's and rally like them. My last Husky was incredible and bullet proof (360 wxc). My problem was parts, I would order parts and wait three months to get them after paying for them up front. The last piston I bought cost me $284 for a 2 smoke., that did not include gaskets. After spending time talking with Pumkin owners at my last enduro, I would never buy one. These guys were telling me all the work they had to do to a new bike to fix factory problems like improper compression ratios, poor quality fork seals, and weak rear hubs. I passed three KTOOMS with broken rear hubs at my last enduro. I think KTM owners are like BMW guys, they don't mind spending money or working on something if it is a pretty trick to start with. If you buy the Honda I think you will be very happy. I race with several guys that have the X and they love them. The best and only mod's I would do is the Power Now, Boysen Air filter and filter basket (replaces the screen and helps the engine breath) and spring the bike for your weight. I had a Pro-Moto Billet end cap on my R and it worked great. I bought a White Bros. E2 pipe thinking the bike would run better (with the spark/sound arrestor installed), but it didn't. In fact now I have to change the jetting when I go up in elevation (4000' or more). I did not have that problem with the Stock/Pro-Moto setup. To thier credit, the White Bros. pipe works awesome when it's unplugged. I had a warranty issue with the first pipe. White Bros. sent me a new unit, thier customer service was awesome, and I plan on buying othe parts from them in the future. I just feel that you reaaly don't get the bang for the buck with aftermarket pipes. I hope this information is helpful to you.

|The Flea

2003 CRF450R

White Bros. E2, Boyseen Filter/Basket, Works clutch perch, Works Skid and Engine gaurds, Devol Radiator gaurds, ProTapers, Pro-Comp computer

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