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freekstyle

drive train started an argument

18 posts in this topic

I was out of town and ran across a bike shop, knowing that my drivetrain is shot, I went in the place for the new chain and sprockects. I must have been there when business was slow because I had two parts dudes helping me and they both had different ideas on what I needed. I said "I need a steel rear 50 tooth and a 15 front. What chain do you recomend for this combo for sandy riding?"

Dude #1: You should get an al. sprocket and go with a O or X ring chain.

Dude #2: No, get the Ironman sprocket and go with the normal DID chain. The O-ring will only cause you problems in the sand and rob your power.

I said I was advised by local riders that I sould go steel, and I didnt ask them about the chain. Then a asked why do you recomend alluminum.

Dude #1: The teeth on the al. sprocket wont wear if you go with the O or X ring.

I said " Okay, if thats true, whats the price difference."

Dude #1: We only have the X-ring in stock now and its about $100. But, it is a must have!

Dude #2: Get the Ironman and the non O-ring DID chain, the Ironman has a one year guarantee and the chain is only $39.

Then it happend... They started... "You dont know what your talking about" "Your stupid" "Its sand not hard pack" "O-rings are better for everything" " The sand will f*** it up" " Go f**** youself" " Why should I when I can go F*** you wife"

Then I left, I just walked out. When I got home I went to a local shop and got an Ironman 50, a 15 front and the DID non O-ring chain. I didnt go with the O-ring just because it was cheaper and with steel at both ends I think I'll be fine.

What do you all think of this? I spent an hour in there just listening to them piss on themselves. Im not mad or anything I actually thought it was funny, Just want to know if my set up is okay.

Thanks

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I'm running front and rear Ironman sprockets on my YZ250F but I went with an O ring chain to get the max. life out of my sprockets and chain. O ring chains will last 3-5 times longer than a standard non O ring chain.

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I would go for the o-ring or x-ring if you will be riding in a lot of sand, otherwise a good regular chain should last fine. I believe that most of it is how and where a person rides and how much you want to spend. I think the ironman and an X-ring chain would last the longest but also cost the most, sooo find a happy medium by buying different combos, just remember to buy a good well known chain each time, none of those stock replacement chains that come stock on your bike. I have gone through Tag, Renthal , AFAM, Sprocket Specialties, Sidewinder, and a couple other sprockets, I have also burned through DID,RK,EK Rnthal chain. The best combo I have found for my 450 is Ironman sprockets with a DID gold chain(non O-ring). But when I go to the dunes I throw on a different size Ironman rear sprocket and a RK X-ring chain to keeep the sand from grinding the chain so much. This is what works very well for me. :D

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I went with an O ring chain to get the max. life out of my sprockets and chain. O ring chains will last 3-5 times longer than a standard non O ring chain.
I don't know about 3-5 times longer, and it could be argued that with proper care, a non-sealed chain will last as long if not longer than a sealed one. But frankly, I don't have time for the regimine of chain care that would require. As it stands, I get about 18 to 24 months of service out of Regina ORN O-ring chains just by keeping the outside reasonably clean and lubing the exterior with a non-tacky synthetic lube. They outlast about two alloy rear sprockets and one front in the process and are still barely any longer than when new. What eventually kills them is they finally dry out inside and get stiff spots.

I ride the desert quite a bit, and sand isn't a problem. If you use a sticky chain lube, though, it can be, as that will cause the sand to gather around the O-rings and grind on them, eventually tearing them.

There is no correlation between sprocket wear and one type of chain or other. That has to do with lube and with running stretched chains.

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It's the old bait, switch and jab a pencil in the other dude's eye trick. Glad you didn't fall for it!

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Steel sprockets last a lot longer than aluminum in general. Steel is just more abrasion resistant and more resistive to deformation under pressure than aluminum. The biggest problem with steel is it is heavy. Not as big a deal off-road or on the street, but more of a big deal for MX. The main advantage to the Ironman is that it has the durability of steel but weighs much less than the average steel sprocket due to the way it is designed (it looks sweet too). I've got pictures of several different sprockets on the digital scale, including the Ironman, but I'm not allowed to post a link (my store competes with TT so I completely understand). Keep in mind that nothing wears a sprocket faster than a stretched out chain, and that sealed chains (x-ring, o-ring, etc..) typically stretch much less than standard chains and you can see why a quality sealed chain combined with the Ironman sprockets will give you a very very long service life. I can get just about any sprocket at wholesale pricing, and I'll tell you that the Ironman is not the least expensive out there even at wholesale prices, but to me the combination of durability and light weight is worth the cost so that's what I use. Your setup should be fine, just keep in mind that chain stretch can really accelerate the wear on a set of sprockets so if it starts to stretch then swap it with a newer/better chain before the sprockets begin to look worn.

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Yea, I guess dude #2 won the fight because I purchased what he was selling, good sprockets cheap chain. But, they are both loosers in my opinion because I bought my stuff form a different store. The first guy was showing me special tools I would "need" to put the O-ring masterlink together that would cost me another $80.

Do you guys with O or X-ring chains use $80 dollar tools to put them together? This seems extreme to me, I kept thinking $180 for the chain and tool or $39 for the cheap chain. I could replace the cheap chain 4 times and still come out ahead! If I need a tool to put it together I wouldnt think It should cost that much. BTW, what do you think about the coment Dude #2 made about the O-ring taking away power?

Thanks for all the replies.

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Do you guys with O or X-ring chains use $80 dollar tools to put them together? BTW, what do you think about the coment Dude #2 made about the O-ring taking away power?

Thanks for all the replies.

The ORN I use has a normal master link, although it does require a bit of clamping to press it together due to the tight fit of the plate on the pins. You own something that will do the job already, though.

Take away power? How exactly? Extra weight? How much do you think that 228 1/4" O-rings weigh? If you put them all in a sandwich bag, the first good breeze would blow them off the table. The ORN is a little heavy, but that's because it's a little beefier than some chains.

Extra drag? At any given moment, there are only 8 O-rings in the chain actually rotating; the two at each of the four pins that are rolling onto or off of the sprockets. And of those, only the ones on the front sprocket are moving more than a couple of degrees. No, I'd be willing to bet that the power loss is so small that it's virtually undetectable on any dyno.

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The ORN I use has a normal master link, although it does require a bit of clamping to press it together due to the tight fit of the plate on the pins. You own something that will do the job already, though.

Take away power? How exactly? Extra weight? How much do you think that 228 1/4" O-rings weigh? If you put them all in a sandwich bag, the first good breeze would blow them off the table. The ORN is a little heavy, but that's because it's a little beefier than some chains.

Extra drag? At any given moment, there are only 8 O-rings in the chain actually rotating; the two at each of the four pins that are rolling onto or off of the sprockets. And of those, only the ones on the front sprocket are moving more than a couple of degrees. No, I'd be willing to bet that the power loss is so small that it's virtually undetectable on any dyno.

Good lord. You never cease to amaze me man. I wish you were my daddy!

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What store was this? We should all line up and one by one go in and ask for their opinion on chains and sprockets. Maybe by the end of the day they'll be duking it out. :D

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Good lord. You never cease to amaze me man. I wish you were my daddy!
I have enough "kids" already, thanks. But all you have to do is look at things and think about them, that's all. Anyone can do that. When you hear, "O-ring chains have more drag", you think, "What's the difference?".

But if you want to look even further, consider this: if the chain were to absorb .25 horsepower , doing so would create about 10.5 BTU of heat per minute. In an hour's ride, enough heat would be created to raise the the temperature of a gallon of water more than 50 degrees. How hot does your chain get?

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To add to Grayracer's explanation, I have also heard that (and it makes sense) when you get an O-ring chain up to operating temperature the friction is even less, therefore negligible. I bought a non-o ring chain this time because I had never used one before and wanted to develop my own opinion rather than believe what I have heard...however, all it did was make me believe that I chose correctly all those years in using an O-ring chain. My sprocket is showing signs of heavy use already with only about 16 hours on it. I think I'll go to a steel sprocket and o-ring chain when I get some more $$.

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Well... there are no "special" tools needed for putting an o-ring master link on. So that was a lie. But regardless I believe that it is not a good idea to but quality rear and front sprockets just to throw a cheap chain on them. If any of the 3 parts of your drive system are cheaper then the rest, it will eventually cause pre-mature wear on the other 2 parts thus causing you to not get the full life out of your parts. And in turn you just wasted money.

Always get "matching" materials and wear capabilities in your front rear and chain. You will be happy you did. And yes, O-Ring WILL outlast a non O-Ring chain in all cases. And as far as robbing power.... the amount of drag and friction caused by the o-rings is so minimal that you will not even be able to tell the difference. If you can.. you deserve a factory ride!

just my $0.02

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Memo to Motorcycle dealership;

Never put a moron in any position that has to deal with paying customers.

sincerely,

Lost Business

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Okay Grayracer you were right, I may have over exaggerated the benefits of an O ring chain when I wrote that an O ring chain will last 3-5 times longer than a non O ring chain. How about this an O ring chain will last longer than a non O ring chain (depending upon the maintenance of the chain).

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Okay Grayracer you were right, I may have over exaggerated the benefits of an O ring chain when I wrote that an O ring chain will last 3-5 times longer than a non O ring chain. How about this an O ring chain will last longer than a non O ring chain (depending upon the maintenance of the chain).
Well, I agree with you, but I know someone who doesn't.

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