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24HRDESERT

RH Footpeg came off...again!

24 posts in this topic

Happened again!!! Right hand bolts of footpeg sheared clean thru over some whoops, fortunately not at the same high speed as the last (painful) time!!!

This has happened 4 times now....and now the frame mounts have become distorted.

Grateful of any assists on how to sort. Have read many different suggestions, but I need the ULTIMATE fix....doesn't do much for the confidence when you are waiting for a high speed off....even when you just tightened bolts...again!!! HELP???

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I would like to get some ideas on what to do also. Mine hasn't come off yet but I would like to go ahead and do something before it happens.

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dont mean to make a plug for a company.....but.

i used the SRC (summers racing co.) shim kit for the r.h. footpeg bolts when i first bought my '02.

put a dab of silicone on 'em also.

never even had to tighten em a millimeter. :thumbsup:

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If you're shearing bolts, you must either weigh in at 800# or not be useing grade 8 hardened bolts.

Hopefully you can get the sheared studs out without damaging the frame, then replace with the good stuff. You may have to look around for hardened metric bolts, Try Garner-Wescot or your local Caterpillar dealership if your local hardware shop doesnt have any.

Now take a look at your foot peg, Is the tip pointed up when its re-attached? Look at your boots , where is the sole contacting the peg at? If your body weight is on the outside of the peg because the peg is bent up, your boots are too big, or you just ride with a wider stance, you're putting more stress on those bolts.

If you want to get real serious, find someone that can weld alluminum and weld the damn thing on! :thumbsup:

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If you're shearing bolts, you must either weigh in at 800# or not be useing grade 8 hardened bolts.

Look at your boots , where is the sole contacting the peg at? If your body weight is on the outside of the peg because the peg is bent up, your boots are too big, or you just ride with a wider stance, you're putting more stress on those bolts.

If you want to get real serious, find someone that can weld alluminum and weld the damn thing on! :thumbsup:

thats the worst reply ive seen about this!

First off you aren't gonna be welding aluminum to steel unless you are explosion welding so now that that's out of the way...

Second...most people who race these bikes use the WIDE IMS pegs which compunds the problem.

The problem is a known problem on the XR400 as well as the XR650, but moreso on the 650 since bigger guys ride them. Honda use of bolted on cantilevered peg on these bikes baffles me!

Socket head screws (front bolt) are almost always hardened and equivalent to gr.8 strength...but more important..metric hardware doesnt conform to the so-called "Grade 8" it would be an 8.8 or 10.9 etc...

Heres my fix...

the rear bolt is a blind hole so you are kinda screwed in using the stock size bolt... so I left that one alone although I would like to machine a shim to make the bolt fit snug instead of so sloppy. Why is it sloppy? In my opinion they relied on the forging tolerances instead of undersizing the hole and drilling it to the correct size so that the factory hardware would fit without a hundred thou worth of slop.

The front bolt however I drilled the frame out with a 7/16 drill bit and then used a 7/16" socket head screw with a serrated flange nut on the rear and tightened the shat out of it.

Then you get a piece of flat stock that is as wide as the flat part on the peg mount (im in the process of this) and you lay it on top of the frame and overlap the peg mount by about .125 and weld the flat stock to the peg...so now you have a piece of flat stock welded to the peg mount that is flat on top of the frame and goes back under the motor(tapers back at an angle to clear the motor)... then you get another piece of flat stock and drill a 7/16 hole in it and drop it down the back side of the frame and bolt it on so it butts up to the flat piece on top of the frame...and weld that to the other piece of flat stock...

now you have a peg mount that is in double shear AND cradles the frame...which will also take a lot of stress off the rear stock bolt and keep it from breaking as well.

AS for saying he must be 800 #'s...my buddy who weighs 150 wet, broke his off so that defeats your theory!

Thunderchicken has pics of the mod I speak of and precision concepts will sell you the peg mount already modified like above for $150 if you send them your peg mount. Let me get mine up and running and show you guys some pics... and if you guys want it done I will do it for a sig smaller fee then precision concepts to my freinds here at TT.

So why does it break? The stock bolts are about a hundred thou undersized to the hole in the peg and the hole in the frame...these pegs rely solely on the bolt torque being spot on... as soon as they become undertorwued from frame fatigue, creep, bolt stretch, etc... they are not to factory torque spec and their effective clamping force is gone, which will eventually cause the bolt to shear off off if you ride like a man or race the bike. The bolts dont need to be loose enough to finger tighten to break...they just need to be looser then the torque spec.

I think the 7/16 front bolt alone would fix the problem but I dont need a broken leg to find out for sure.

FOr those that cant picture it...heres what the pieces will look like...something quick and dirty I put together for those interested...

peg.jpg

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Yeah, from what I've read you don't have to be very heavy for the bolts to shear. I'm not 800lbs but I am 275lbs so I don't even want to take a chance.

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If you're shearing bolts, you must either weigh in at 800# or not be useing grade 8 hardened bolts.

Look at your boots , where is the sole contacting the peg at? If your body weight is on the outside of the peg because the peg is bent up, your boots are too big, or you just ride with a wider stance, you're putting more stress on those bolts.

If you want to get real serious, find someone that can weld alluminum and weld the damn thing on! :thumbsup:

thats the worst reply ive seen about this!

First off you aren't gonna be welding aluminum to steel unless you are explosion welding so now that that's out of the way...

Second...most people who race these bikes use the WIDE IMS pegs which compunds the problem.

The problem is a known problem on the XR400 as well as the XR650, but moreso on the 650 since bigger guys ride them. Honda use of bolted on cantilevered peg on these bikes baffles me!

Socket head screws (front bolt) are almost always hardened and equivalent to gr.8 strength...but more important..metric hardware doesnt conform to the so-called "Grade 8" it would be an 8.8 or 10.9 etc...

Heres my fix...

the rear bolt is a blind hole so you are kinda screwed in using the stock size bolt... so I left that one alone although I would like to machine a shim to make the bolt fit snug instead of so sloppy. Why is it sloppy? In my opinion they relied on the forging tolerances instead of undersizing the hole and drilling it to the correct size so that the factory hardware would fit without a hundred thou worth of slop.

The front bolt however I drilled the frame out with a 7/16 drill bit and then used a 7/16" socket head screw with a serrated flange nut on the rear and tightened the shat out of it.

Then you get a piece of flat stock that is as wide as the flat part on the peg mount (im in the process of this) and you lay it on top of the frame and overlap the peg mount by about .125 and weld the flat stock to the peg...so now you have a piece of flat stock welded to the peg mount that is flat on top of the frame and goes back under the motor(tapers back at an angle to clear the motor)... then you get another piece of flat stock and drill a 7/16 hole in it and drop it down the back side of the frame and bolt it on so it butts up to the flat piece on top of the frame...and weld that to the other piece of flat stock...

now you have a peg mount that is in double shear AND cradles the frame...which will also take a lot of stress off the rear stock bolt and keep it from breaking as well.

AS for saying he must be 800 #'s...my buddy who weighs 150 wet, broke his off so that defeats your theory!

Thunderchicken has pics of the mod I speak of and precision concepts will sell you the peg mount already modified like above for $150 if you send them your peg mount. Let me get mine up and running and show you guys some pics... and if you guys want it done I will do it for a sig smaller fee then precision concepts to my freinds here at TT.

So why does it break? The stock bolts are about a hundred thou undersized to the hole in the peg and the hole in the frame...these pegs rely solely on the bolt torque being spot on... as soon as they become undertorwued from frame fatigue, creep, bolt stretch, etc... they are not to factory torque spec and their effective clamping force is gone, which will eventually cause the bolt to shear off off if you ride like a man or race the bike. The bolts dont need to be loose enough to finger tighten to break...they just need to be looser then the torque spec.

I think the 7/16 front bolt alone would fix the problem but I dont need a broken leg to find out for sure.

FOr those that cant picture it...heres what the pieces will look like...something quick and dirty I put together for those interested...

peg.jpg

I'll take you up on that when you get them going Kritter!!

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I drilled the hole clean thru the frame--then ran a bolt clean thru---this was to attach a peg mount welded to a brace that wraps completely around the frame rail....it aint going nowhere....

Anyway i know you can now buy such a product right off the shelf. Precision Concepts in Temecula has them. Cost is aobut $150 or so...not sure if it includes an exchange. Its the ultimate fix for this VERY common problem on our bike. Team Honda uses this fix...

Its either a Precision Concepts product or a www.1xinternational.com product....

just dont tell whats-his-name you heard about it from me!

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As mikekay said, the Precision Concepts footpet mount is really the final word on the problem... I recently picked two up from their store while inquiring about revalve pricing. The price is $150, or $120 if you give them your old bracket (they make the new ones out of the stock mounts).

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If you're shearing bolts, you must either weigh in at 800# or not be useing grade 8 hardened bolts.

Look at your boots , where is the sole contacting the peg at? If your body weight is on the outside of the peg because the peg is bent up, your boots are too big, or you just ride with a wider stance, you're putting more stress on those bolts.

If you want to get real serious, find someone that can weld alluminum and weld the damn thing on! :thumbsup:

thats the worst reply ive seen about this!

First off you aren't gonna be welding aluminum to steel unless you are explosion welding so now that that's out of the way...

Second...most people who race these bikes use the WIDE IMS pegs which compunds the problem.

The problem is a known problem on the XR400 as well as the XR650, but moreso on the 650 since bigger guys ride them. Honda use of bolted on cantilevered peg on these bikes baffles me!

Socket head screws (front bolt) are almost always hardened and equivalent to gr.8 strength...but more important..metric hardware doesnt conform to the so-called "Grade 8" it would be an 8.8 or 10.9 etc...

Heres my fix...

the rear bolt is a blind hole so you are kinda screwed in using the stock size bolt... so I left that one alone although I would like to machine a shim to make the bolt fit snug instead of so sloppy. Why is it sloppy? In my opinion they relied on the forging tolerances instead of undersizing the hole and drilling it to the correct size so that the factory hardware would fit without a hundred thou worth of slop.

The front bolt however I drilled the frame out with a 7/16 drill bit and then used a 7/16" socket head screw with a serrated flange nut on the rear and tightened the shat out of it.

Then you get a piece of flat stock that is as wide as the flat part on the peg mount (im in the process of this) and you lay it on top of the frame and overlap the peg mount by about .125 and weld the flat stock to the peg...so now you have a piece of flat stock welded to the peg mount that is flat on top of the frame and goes back under the motor(tapers back at an angle to clear the motor)... then you get another piece of flat stock and drill a 7/16 hole in it and drop it down the back side of the frame and bolt it on so it butts up to the flat piece on top of the frame...and weld that to the other piece of flat stock...

now you have a peg mount that is in double shear AND cradles the frame...which will also take a lot of stress off the rear stock bolt and keep it from breaking as well.

AS for saying he must be 800 #'s...my buddy who weighs 150 wet, broke his off so that defeats your theory!

Thunderchicken has pics of the mod I speak of and precision concepts will sell you the peg mount already modified like above for $150 if you send them your peg mount. Let me get mine up and running and show you guys some pics... and if you guys want it done I will do it for a sig smaller fee then precision concepts to my freinds here at TT.

So why does it break? The stock bolts are about a hundred thou undersized to the hole in the peg and the hole in the frame...these pegs rely solely on the bolt torque being spot on... as soon as they become undertorwued from frame fatigue, creep, bolt stretch, etc... they are not to factory torque spec and their effective clamping force is gone, which will eventually cause the bolt to shear off off if you ride like a man or race the bike. The bolts dont need to be loose enough to finger tighten to break...they just need to be looser then the torque spec.

I think the 7/16 front bolt alone would fix the problem but I dont need a broken leg to find out for sure.

FOr those that cant picture it...heres what the pieces will look like...something quick and dirty I put together for those interested...

peg.jpg

Well excuse me Mr Wizard. I guess if I'm going to get my head bit off when I try to help... I will just keep my mouth shut. :devil:

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I've heard of this problem so I check my bolts before every trip. The first few times I noticed they were loose but lately every time I check them they're tight....damn tight.

Never had a problem....I'm not a girly rider and I'm not what you'd call skinny either. Maybe I'll pick up some extra bolts for my fanny pack or the tool box but at $150.00 a pop I'm gonna hold off on the braket fix.

I just keep an eye on them and so far so good.

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Thanks for all the input. Seems like there are various good possibilities to consider, each (most!) of which sounds plausible.

DID keep bolts tightened after every ride but still had problem...hence the huge hole in my thigh 6 months after the previous high speed crash!

This time I had, on 'specialist' advice, heat treated bolts in...supposed to soften slightly so that wouldn't shear so easily, but would bend more instead....SAME result!

Honda here are suggesting drilling out and using 2mm larger dia bolt, however not entirely convinced???SOUNDS like stronger bolts would help, but what potential probs might result?? For a start, surely means enlarginging the holes in the peg mount itself....will this still leave it strong enough to do the job...or just cause another problem?? Also they are saying that part of problem is caused by the original bolt being only part threaded, and are planning to use full threaded bolt this time....any thoughts?? The pricey suggestions given (for which thanks) become more expensive than ever since I do not live in the States and shipping to here would probably DOUBLE the pricing given by some of the guys!!!! AND I NEED TO RIDE ASAP!!!

Thanks again to all who offered help....

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Might just take your mount to a local welder/fabricator--have them make an extension that goes around the frame bolting right thru the rail--weld it to the OEM mount....should take a good fab dude an hour or so and shouldnt cost more than $65 or so....i think theres a pic on the www.1Xinternational.com site...dirt bikes in the 1970's where like the BRP --lots to fix and improve...

The bigger bolt is just going to sheer again---if it doesnt back out first!

Theres a reason engine mounting bolts dont screw into the frame...

Our bike has lots of problems and Honda never ever fixes them. CRF's - it would be fixed next season. XR's -- forget it. You gotta fix it yourself--the aftermarket guys must lOVE bikes like ours...just like a ? Well i cant actually think of a motorcycle company selling off road bikes (and marketing itself as a 'family' oriented company!) now in business that is less responsive to quality concerns than Honda...KTM, Yamaha , Suzuki , VOR, Husaberg, Kawi? All would at least fix the thermostat and peg bolt issue. The peg bolt is in my mind a potential for litigation....clearly Honda knows about it and clearly it is a hazard. :thumbsup:

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The peg bolt is in my mind a potential for litigation....clearly Honda knows about it and clearly it is a hazard. :thumbsup:

Yah, "recall" or whatever they wanna call it. Send us a (free) fix before we're all crippled. I think I may even send 'em a letter.

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I like Kritters fix. It takes a lot of the stress off of the bolts bending. But why drill out the front 8 mm Allen and run a 7/16 thru bolt. Is the 7/16 drill thru bolt used because the 8 MM Allen head is hard to find? Why not tap the rest of the hole in the front and then run a longer 8mm bolt thru. The 7/16 is Bigger in diameter? Its a good design and it will be a cheap fix.

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8mm bolt is about a 5/16" bolt so, a 7/16" bolt would be quite a bit stronger.

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I like Kritters fix. It takes a lot of the stress off of the bolts bending. But why drill out the front 8 mm Allen and run a 7/16 thru bolt. Is the 7/16 drill thru bolt used because the 8 MM Allen head is hard to find? Why not tap the rest of the hole in the front and then run a longer 8mm bolt thru. The 7/16 is Bigger in diameter? Its a good design and it will be a cheap fix.

THe front bolt and rear bolt are actually 10mm dia. and 45mm long. A 12mm would require the peg to be drilled and then the peg would probably crack...there is always a weakest link and for this problem the only real fix is strapping the frame as I posted above.

Why not tap the front part of the front hole? The bung is oversized so it cant be tapped with a 10mm tap...it would have to be tapped 12mm to keep it metric, but then the peg mount would have to be drilled top fit a 12 mm bolt. The thru bolt is nice since you can make the strap and bolt through it and put a nut on the back side...also if you just do the bolt mod only...if it shears again you dont have to use an EZ out to get the remaining bolt out.

I would have had a sample ready for sales, but I got sick as a dog on monday, went to the DR and they told me it was potentially west nile so I had to go to ER...long story short...im allergic to aspirin and my legs are welted like somebody beat me with a baseball bat from it...hurts to walk. Not only that, but I have severe headaches and neck pain that will not go away for 7-10 days according to the doctor so I am not about to go out in the shop and start fabbin up anything till this pounding in my head goes down.

I will do the peg mount mod for $75(no hidden fees) if you send me your peg mount, but I will let my work speak for itself before I take orders... as soon as I get my arse back in the shop.

PM me if interested.

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Finally decided to drill out and rethread for bigger bolts...think the new ones are now 14mm...

No problems so far and bolts look fine....and cheap!!

Thanks for all suggestions.

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My peg broke off on a Mikes Sky Ranch trip with only 600+ miles on the bike. I weight 270, but weight wasn't the problem. I used the SRC shim kit and checked the bolt in question every ride and each morning on a multi day ride as suggested by JC from Team Honda. I met up with him at Mikes while marking pits for our trace team at the 03 Baja 500. Back then, he drilled his frame and ran a grade 8 bolt clean thru. Files down the nut on one side and threads it on. No loctite or silicone. Worked for him and he had the footpeg breakoff as well the year before.

All XR 650 riders should carry a spare bolt and some easy outs to get the broken bolt out should it shear at the frame. My bolt broke going over a jump, causing me to crash (endo thru a ditch is more accurate), breaking my right wrist. Since I was dual sporting it that ride, a 190 mile ride home thru Baja and San Diego county brought me home with a very sore wrist.

Called Honda next day to complain about new bike (remember 600+ miles). I was told by service manager up there that I was the " 1st" one he had ever heard having this problem and that it must be something I did. I mentioned JC fix and he said that would void my frame warranty (I had the 4 year extended warranty) if I did that. He suggested going to local dealer and they could replace my entire frame if it needed it.

I fixed the bike and sold it. I was off work 10 months with a broken wrist and all I got from Honda was it was something I must have done wrong.

Now Precision Concepts in San Diego County (El Cajon) makes a mount (mentioned in other articles here) that works great. I would recommend that over all other fixes UNLESS you dont have a warranty on your PIG any longer. If that was the case, I'd say drill the frame. Cheaper and worked for Team Honda for over 3 years until new fix came about.

Me, I sold my PIG. Can't ride a bike in baja or desert where I had to worry if the peg would shear off while having fun. If you bought your bike new, I'd call or email Honda asking them for a new frame. ALMOST EVERYONE who rides there Honda halfway hard has broken this peg bolt. If not, theres will break sooner than later. Steny

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"Now Precision Concepts in San Diego County (El Cajon) makes a mount (mentioned in other articles here) that works great. I would recommend that over all other fixes UNLESS you dont have a warranty on your PIG any longer. If that was the case, I'd say drill the frame. Cheaper and worked for Team Honda for over 3 years until new fix came about."

Im pretty sure you drill the front out on there kit as well so you have a thru bolt that if it breaks, you dont need an ex out to get it going again.

Not to mention there peg mod is a piace of hacked up angle iron and a tab welded together then welded to your peg...

"UN-Precision" Concepts as Stolidog called it after buying their peg and having to grind it to fit!

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