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youngwerth

Advice on XR650 rebuild after engine ran out of oil...

14 posts in this topic

My new to me XR650 had it's countershaft seal fail, all the oil drained out on one ride. The guy riding the bike didn't notice anything until he stopped at the truck.

Anywho, pulled the valve cover off, the cam and followers look like hell, deeply scored. No signs of excessive heat though.

This looks like it's going to be an expensive fix. Anybody out there been through this before? Looks like the valve train components are going to be in the $350-$400 range at service honda. The crank is going to be $350+. This was a very low hour 2000 XR650, it was going to be my dual sport.

I'm wondering if I should just be parting her out at this point as it looks like parts could easily be over $1000. Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

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Sounds horrible. :thumbsup:

Heres some advice:

Parting it out usually nets ya around $2000-$2500 or so. Its a major hassle. If you do part it out make sure everything is very very very well packaged when you ship it out. Sadly with your motor burnt-you might have problems getting even $2000...

A rebuild will cost AT LEAST $1500--try more like $2000 or more--it depends what you find when you open it up, and what you want to do with it.

You can probably get close to $2000 for the bike as is...

Sometimes you can find 650 engines for sale. You could take that burnt motor and turn it into a hot rod. I have done several rebuilds to the 650 motor now...and have found out what works and doesnt...others on here can also guide you with what parts work best in the motor. Its a bit tricky to get the different aftermarket stuff all working right with each other. Your local parts changer mechanic is NOT going to know what pistons work with what valves, crank, rod, gaskets, springs, etc., etc. Unless of course you leave it all stock. But either way its not cheap to do.

Anyway--if you plan to sell 'as is' or in parts i would be interested in all or part of it. For sure i need a rear wheel. .. :devil:

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1st of all, are you certain of the amount of damage: the camshaft is scored, but is the crank really dead ? Or only the bearings ? If you replace the cam only, you'll stay below $150 with an aftermarket. As for the rest of the stuff, run a compression or leak down test to see if your cylinder, valves guides etc are damaged. If you're lucky enough, you might be able to get the bike running again on the cheap.

Anyway, good luck with this, and if you need some guidance on how to tear down the engine, you might be able to find some info here:

http://crustyquinns.com/

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The cam and the followers are ugly... ground is probably a better term than scored. At a minimum, I'll need to open her up just to clean out the metal shavings.

I'm going to go ahead and split the cases. If the crank is good and the damage is pretty much limited to the head, then I'll probably fix it. If not, I'll start posting parts prices.

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Check for:

1) Brass shavings in the oil, or in the filter (cut it in half and look closely) if there is even a hint of brass shavings--you need a new crank.

2) Rocker arm surfaces--if its as messy on top as you describe look for wear or scoreing-- means ya need to have them re-surfaced or get new ones.

3) Scoring of the barrel. Obvious. Rings for sure, piston perhaps, hopefully nothing more.

4) Bearings--are the balls grey/brown? Do they spin freely? Depending on how many miles you have on the bike...might be time to replace them all.

5) Valves-should be obvious--but look for tuliping (common on our bike) and for smooth seat contacts...

6) While you are in there replace the guide and tensioner...

7) Throw in a 'A' gasket kit...

Please dont just sort of get it going with some half-ass measures and sell it to some guy. Do it right. If the rockers are worn, fix em, ditto on everything else. :thumbsup:

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Chin Up....

Since the XR is a dry sump system... damages MAY be less than you think... Sure the top end may be a little cooked, but the lower end is the first to receive any oil that may be available... and there's alot there. So just tear her down and looky to see what's damaged.

Just my $.02

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It's looking much better than I thought... The guides are pretty much melted and the cam and followers will definitely need to be replaced but the piston, rings and bore all look perfect. Nothing looks like it got hot except the cam. This bike had maybe 25 hours on it.

If the wrist pin looks good and I don't find brass in the filter, then I'm going to flush the motor as best as I can without splitting the cases, replace the cam, followers, chain and guide and see how it goes. I planned on making this bike my dual sport and running it into the ground, just hadn't planned on it running into the ground so soon.

Thanks for everyone's help.

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Glad to read its not a basket case!

Just a thought--the mid range cam grind really brings the BRP to life. no issues with wearing the rocker surfaces any faster...worth considering.

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No brass in the oil filter and the wrist pin is good. So I'm getting new chain guides, chain, cam bearings, cam and followers.

Who makes the aftermarket cams? What would be a good cam grind? The low end is perfect but she's a little weak through the midrange. Can you get good midrange out of this motor without letting her breathe better? I really want to keep her quiet.

Thanks again for everybody's help and advice.

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No brass in the oil filter and the wrist pin is good. So I'm getting new chain guides, chain, cam bearings, cam and followers.

Who makes the aftermarket cams? What would be a good cam grind? The low end is perfect but she's a little weak through the midrange. Can you get good midrange out of this motor without letting her breathe better? I really want to keep her quiet.

Thanks again for everybody's help and advice.

Hot Cams makes a stage 1 or 2 for around 140 or so. Good luck.

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Hey this just happened to me!!! but it was the cam hole cap!!! I was lucky too... no bottom end damage, or piston/cylinder damage... My cam was burnt definate bluing at the bends in the rocker arms, cam was dry as a bone when I opened it up!!! you could smell the burn!! I think I might have run for about 45min to an hour, before I noticed. anyway, I spent $550 total to put it back together, and so far so good!!! When it happened, I took it home and drained the oil, I got maybe a cup, cup and a half of oil out of it! when I pushed down the kick start, I could hear it squeal, it was the cam. So I got a new cam, rockers, top end gasket set, cam bearings, I lapped the valves they were O.K. guides were still good too. New set of rings just for good measure, but the were fine. valve seals came in top end kit. new valve springs, just because it was so hot, they say heat really hurts them. I just rode today, and everything seems to be fine, no problems, running real strong, and I like the cam, Hot Cams stage 1, $150 from motosport outlet!!! I did have to put A LOT of oil in it after the rebuild... the book says 2.1 qts after disassembly, but it's more like 2.5 maybe a little more... but I sure do check the oil every time I go for a ride now!!! If you have any more questions hit me with a PM I'd be glad to help you through this tough and painful time your going through!!! :thumbsup::devil::awww:

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Hot Cams stage 1, $150 from motosport outlet!!!

Pro-Flo sells the stage 1 cam for $125. Then call the TT store and speak to Brian. Use the 110% price guarantee to get it for $112.5 with free shipping :thumbsup:

http://www.pro-flo.com/proflo_hot_cams.htm

I'm happy with my stage 1 Hotcam, but when I go with the Barnums 680 kit, I'll use Barnums hard welded mid range cam for even better performance.

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Hey youngwerth...

Hope I'm not too late... you said...

I'm going to flush the motor as best as I can without splitting the cases

This would be a great time to get the Factory Manual... apparently Honda has considered these types of problems (cooked heads) and has engineered screens to catch MOST of the parts/pieces that fall off BEFORE they go into the oil pump and really do damage. If the Factory manual is too much $ get some copies of the pages that you need from the local library or even from one of the guys here on the BB.

Hope this helps

L8R

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Sounds crazy but is there any bike "recycling" places around you? There is one in Seattle called bent bike. One of those places may have a complete engine

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