New clutch plates now clutch isn't disengaging

[kfrosty]

Hadn't changed clutch plates since last Sept. Change oil about every two weeks. Decided to change metals and fibers before heading out this weekend. Taking the old plates out, they looked good until I got to the last fiber out. (Or first one in however you want to look at it.) I came out in about 5 pieces. 1st I'm puzzled as to how it shattered. Hinson clutch basket looked ok. Next oiled and replaced all the fibers and metals. Put new springs in, and refilled oil. Started the bike and let it idle for about 5 minutes. Went to put it in gear and it about shot out from under me. Found neutral, let it warm up some more. This time put it into gear with the expecation of taking off. Still pulled off but not as bad. However, still too bad to ride. (Clutch in the bike will still pull up a every so slight incline in my yard.) Thought maybe an adjustmen was in order so I adjusted the clutch at the motor about all the way out and not really any noticeable difference? Lost my manual last week when I traded vehicles. Anybody ever ran into this? Since it got better as the bike got hotter, I'm wondering if I take off on it and cut a lap or two, it'll straighten out. Or if something else is going on. Problem is I'm loading up for a 2 hour trip to the race in the morning and I hate to make the trip if something major is wrong. Don't have anywhere nearby to test either.

If anybody has experienced this or knows what may be going on, I'd appreciate any input.

Thanks.

kris

[holeshot]

Yes, I've experienced this when I've installed new fibers in my 426. At first, the clutch wouldn't disengage at all, but the problem went away after I worked the clutch/tranny together.

My guess is that when the fibers are soaked in oil, the height of the stack increases and/or the oil between the plates causes them to stick (or at least not spin freely). When you take the bike out for a ride, the oil flings off and the clutch operation returns to normal.

[MotoGreg]

Hopefully you didn't use a Barnett Kevlar clutch, they are horrible, they will never fully disengage, they drag a lot even with the lever fully in to the bar.

[kfrosty]

Thanks Guys,

I am using a Hinson clutch basket and put stock plates back in. I went ahead and wrenched out the clutch basket. The fly wheel has quite a bit of play in it. Meaning if you put your hands on both sides, it will move up and down about 1/4 inch or so. Also, it looks as if the pressure plate. (Plate that bolts over the flywheel to the basket that contains the springs.) is bowed out in places in between the bolt holes. Also, the allen bolts that bolt it on have some wear on the top of them. However, none of the gears in the tranny appear to have any.

I'm not sure that play in the fly wheel is normal. I don't think it is but I don't have much experience with working on clutches.

I was thinking if I got it out on a track that it would get better. However, know the slack in the flywheel has me a bit worried.

[John_Lorenz]

Kfrosty

Just asking I am sure you checked though..

Did you make sure that all the plates and fibers move smoothly in the basket without hanging?

I always make sure there are no burs, or lips on the plates then chk the fiber.

It is a old school habit of mine to use 1000 grit wet sand paper on a mirror or flat surfice to ruff the plates and fiber up just a tad. A couple of good figure eights will do.

Again thats old school to me, I live in the past.

[kfrosty]

Thanks Ego,

Good advice and I didn't do it at first but after the problem, I took the cover down and took everything out including the clutch basket. I ran my fingers down every one and there wasn't one bur that I could find.

What concerns me is the "flywheel" being loose. I'm assuming that gear is the flywheel. It's the gear that's mounted between the back of the clutch basket and the pressure plate. I could have sworn, when I tightened the 3 bolts that fasten the pressure plate to the clutch basket that the flywheel was snug with no movement. Now, even though the bolts are still tight, the flywheel has up and down play in it. Also, if you sit the clutch basket face down and look at the pressure plate, you can see it is bowed up at the edges in between the bolts. Also, something looks as if it's been rubbing against the tops of these bolts. Checked all the gears behind it and don't see any wear there.

Right now I'm worried about the play in the flywheel and trying to figure out if that is normal or not.

Thanks for the advice though!

[kfrosty]

Actually, I think I'm wrong in calling the gear on the back of the clutch basket the flywheel. Not sure what the correct terminology is for the gear.

[John_Lorenz]

Kfrosty

Not sure if this is correct me thinks its the Primary Drive Gear?

I am looking at this link to determine what you see.... Item 1

http://216.37.204.202/Yamaha_OEM/YamahaDB.asp?Type=13&A=185&B=10

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: E.G.O.**** ]

[kfrosty]

Wow Ego, you are correct. I feel like my girlfriend now, "the gear thingie behind the metal thingie with fingers." ?

I just got off the phone with Hinson and the pressure plate is on the front side, Primary gear and the plate I was calling the pressure plate is the Backing plate.

He told me that maybe the oil I am using is too thick. I've been running Yamalube 20w-40 per the manual but he strongly recommended Valvoline 10w-40.

I'm going to run this to the dealer. I think I need a backing plate and springs but I hopefully, this will work when I get a thinner oil and ride it around.

Thanks Ego!

[sirthumpalot]

PM me if you need a manual. I have an online version of the '01 that I can send you.

[Hick]

There are damper springs between the ring gear (gear behind basket) and the basket, so a small amount of play there is normal.

The primary drive gear shouldn't move at all. If it does you may have a retaining nut coming loose (it should be held by a locking-tab washer).

Hope this helps.

[John_Lorenz]

This sounds like a mystery to be solve by the mystery machine

Scooooby doooooby dooooooooooooooooooo

Man thats is wierd,

Kfrosty

While its on the stand can you keep it running and go through the gears using the clutch, heat that puppy up! Go through the gears a couple times let it idle while pulling the clutch in and out.

Before you do that, try this though

Place the bike in 3rd 4th gear and push the bike back wards clutch in then cluth out get the bike to free up the plates.

Dirt track thumpers use this trick to get the clutch to free up.

to best do this grap the clutch left hand place right on back tire and rotate backwards or push the tire backwards.

Of course the bike is on the ground...

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: E.G.O.**** ]

[kfrosty]

If I did the bike stand thing, I'm afraid it'd be like the Rodney Dangerfield movie where he's on the exercise bike one minute and through the window the next.

It's loaded up right now ready for the trip. When I get to VA tomorrow if I remember I'll give it a try. More than likely it's something I did or didn't do but I've tried putting those plates in several different ways including, standing on one foot, with one eye closed and a rabbit's foot in my pocket. ? (Yes i've had the different fiber in first everytime.)

I thought I was pretty mechanically inclined and this was pretty much idiot proof. Course as they say, you can't build anything idiot proof, they only make a better idiot. Maybe that's what I am.

Any who, I'll definetly try to give that a shot tomorrow.

Thanks!

[John_Lorenz]

One last shot

di you put a layer of oil on the plates and fiber before installing and buttoning up ?

[kfrosty]

Yep. Got a tupperware bowl out of the kitchen. (Which I'll hear about when I get back.)

Dipped each one in before inserting. Thinking about it, one Yamaha guy told me that the he's seen the push rod since it's made out of aluminum the steel ball it comes in contact with wear down and produce these symptoms. However, the rod doesn't look worn. I think there will be a tuner at the race this weekend I can get to look at it if it doesn't loosen up.

Thanks and have a great weekend!

[kfrosty]

Update. Called Hinson and they said the Gear under the back plate should have a little play in it as for Hick mentioned the springs under the plate keep it from getting too tight. However, I I had 4 or 5 cm of travel which they said was too much. Also, I noticed that the inner hub had been rubbing against the clutch basket. Found this to be because the travel mentioned above. It had so much slack that the washer between the clutch basket and the inner hub had recessed below the surface of the clutch basket.

Got all that straightened out and then put everything back together. Fingers crossed, but still the same problem. Took back apart and ran fingers along the edges of everything again to make sure there were no grooves the plates could catch on. Everything smooth.

Called a second dealer and he indicated this might happen if the clutch cable was stretched. Had adjusted the old one with no luck but gave it a shot any way. Still same problem.

One a stand when the bike goes into gear, the wheel starts spinning so fast you don't see a change in speed when you disengage the clutch. Of course you can stop, it just puts a little pull on the engine.

Still at a loss as to what's going on but going to take the trip and see how it goes. As somebody suggested before, I'm hoping when I dump the clutch a few times it'll break in. Very wierd why it's doing this just because I changed the plates and fibers.

Somebody else thought maybe the push rod that comes in contact with the ball in the rod end may have worn down. May give that a shot next.

Thanks to all who replied.