2018 Models Launch

[Marco the Pool Boy]

Just now, highmarker said:

maybe BYOB the kicker back on the 2018?

Agreed, since we have at least 6 months till they get here, I'm sure that either a simplistic kit or BYOB. As always the time between an introduction and the real time we really see 'em, hmmm thinking it will be a while. It takes, what like 15 minutes to remove the primary case cover and then install a kicker assembly, then reassemble, right? Beta 4-strokes are much more complicated and they take just bout 15 minutes, 5 more to get the clutch assembly out. 

Funny thing, I've always installed quality batteries over the last 12 years in DS bikes and NEVER had an issue, not once. I guess I should buy a lottery ticket.... ?

[hawaiidirtrider]

1 minute ago, 4Kracing said:

So you can solve your worries by installing the kick starter. 

Maybe it had to do with my "OCD" (lol) personality and the amount of riding I did during my last ten year stint.  I also believe that the more you ride your bike and keep it tuned, oil and filter top notch, and valves adjusted, it doesn't seem to let you down.  Or, maybe I had a freakish KTM.  However, that was my first E-start bike and I'll never leave home home without the button...ever! 

In closing, I'll take the new Beta without the kick starter just for weight savings. 

"solves my worries" nope ..It's another option. It's an option everyone with only estart does not have. It's an option that I've taken advantage of multiple times.. and I take care of my bikes.. but go ahead and don't get a bike with a kickstarter.. If you think the weight loss is more important good for you. It's not to me.

[highmarker]

Have 2 dirtbikes and several streetbikes now w/o kicks and never been stranded. BUT I've been in spots with the dirtbikes where fan was killing the battery and it made me get the heck out of there into more open recharge riding.  An option that might not always exist. Riding with friends some 10ga jumpers (gave them to a freeride rider) is good because now there is always a battery in the group. Solo I have carried jumpers and a 14.4v millwaukee drill battery (will cold crank my 1000cc). Starter packs are pretty small now too.  A friends wr250r was always dead battery, didn't take much of a push start to light it off, even being FI. A 450 or even a hi comp 250f, forget it in the dirt. 

[hawaiidirtrider]

1 hour ago, Mark-us-B said:

Agreed, since we have at least 6 months till they get here, I'm sure that either a simplistic kit or BYOB. As always the time between an introduction and the real time we really see 'em, hmmm thinking it will be a while. It takes, what like 15 minutes to remove the primary case cover and then install a kicker assembly, then reassemble, right? Beta 4-strokes are much more complicated and they take just bout 15 minutes, 5 more to get the clutch assembly out. 

Funny thing, I've always installed quality batteries over the last 12 years in DS bikes and NEVER had an issue, not once. I guess I should buy a lottery ticket.... ?

There are multiple reasons for an estart to fail and less for a kickstarter to fail . It's just a choice now for Beta 300 from what's been said so far. Last year and all the years before since 2013 the kicker was there . It's in the forefront now that Beta has taken off the kicker to save weight. Anyone can choose what they like.. but I know if I were buying.. like if I were buying an xtrainer the kicker would be included in the buy.. Anyone doesn't want to buy?? ok .That's for each  to decide.

[daveuprite]

It is a bit disappointing that the kickstart is being dropped.  Maybe things have improved sufficiently that the battery/cold-cranking/clutch drag etc issues have been totally solved, but personally speaking my 2012 450RR has needed a kick on about 10 occasions and, although quite difficult to start on the kicker, it did get me going when the battery no longer had enough juice.  

I guess the lower compression of the 2 stroke makes a kickstart slightly less necessary and perhaps the injected 4 strokes are so reliable now that they never need a kick, but I don't see the small weight-saving as a good enough trade-off for losing it and the peace of mind it brings..  Better to include items on the standard bike which those who choose to can remove, than to make owners have to add them as expensive extras later.  Fitted on the factory production llne and bought wholesale by Beta, a kickstarter surely can't add more than about $150 to the brand new price?  Asking $400 to retro fit one is cheeky IMO. 

[hawaiidirtrider]

1 hour ago, daveuprite said:

It is a bit disappointing that the kickstart is being dropped.  Maybe things have improved sufficiently that the battery/cold-cranking/clutch drag etc issues have been totally solved, but personally speaking my 2012 450RR has needed a kick on about 10 occasions and, although quite difficult to start on the kicker, it did get me going when the battery no longer had enough juice.  

I guess the lower compression of the 2 stroke makes a kickstart slightly less necessary and perhaps the injected 4 strokes are so reliable now that they never need a kick, but I don't see the small weight-saving as a good enough trade-off for losing it and the peace of mind it brings..  Better to include items on the standard bike which those who choose to can remove, than to make owners have to add them as expensive extras later.  Fitted on the factory production llne and bought wholesale by Beta, a kickstarter surely can't add more than about $150 to the brand new price?  Asking $400 to retro fit one is cheeky IMO. 

I guess we just don't know at this point.. but if the xtrainer cost $400 I wouldn't see why these wouldn't ..but we will see... all of this in the name of weight loss?.. I guess..

[Lennie]

3 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

I guess we just don't know at this point.. but if the xtrainer cost $400 I wouldn't see why these wouldn't ..but we will see... all of this in the name of weight loss?.. I guess..

Your wallet will be $400 lighter, you will be much faster!

[hawaiidirtrider]

1 minute ago, Lennie said:

Your wallet will be $400 lighter, you will be much faster!

Not my wallet... I love my 300rr..my 525 rs and 350 race edition.. I've got enough Betas.. unless someone wants to buy a 125 2t Beta for me too.. In that case I'll be buying the estart.

[Noppy]

Two weeks ago I was forced to use the kickstarter. The fan and the head light sucked all the power in a dry river bed with many big rocks and hence many forced stops. Both me and my friends had to stop very often, quite hot, hard to start by kick starter but we barely managed! Would never go in to the bush without a kick starter!

[Retromlc]

Shame this thread has gone off topic ref the kickstarter, im sure the reason is a combination of reliability of the e button and to keep the beta very competitive price wise, if it bugs you you can buy on, same with new 125 if your​ want an e button you can fit one., There are positives we should be talking about, eg lighter stronger,with more flex frames new combustion chambers and PV, lighter clutch etc . If i hadn't just bought a new 17 i would definitely be ordering one and id buy the kickstarter, ive never needed to use it but for peace of mind its a no brainer. Lots of Xtrainer riding about without kickstarter and seem OK. Lots of progressive improvement to a fantastic bike.

[MartyMOOSE]

Your onto it Retromic I can see a 2108 350rr coming my way well here's hoping ? Have loved my 2016 ridden most of the 2017 bikes KTM, Husky, Beta ect etc and would love a 350 with the same nature but lighter and a bit more top end with out loosing the Beta'a manners. Great changes I think 5kg odd is not to be scoffed at ??

[FORMA MOTO]

Kickstarter, Schmickstarter

What about the DUAL INJECTORS ??

[weantright]

47 minutes ago, Krannie McKranface said:

Kickstarter, Schmickstarter

What about the DUAL INJECTORS ??

All those that hated FI now have twice the reason! For the rest of us better overall running quality and should help with mileage a bit. As for the kicker... I'll go with cost reduction over weight. Most don't use it to begin with and with Beta charge them heavily afterwards for the ones that feel the need to have it. KTM is not the only brand to cost cut their product.

Edited June 16, 2017 by weantright

[ktm300]

I've not had any problems with the Lithium battery's, I think the early ones had issues, I have them in four bikes and ride all year long.

I get the kicker deal, they save a couple bucks and a few pounds and for most peeps it just sits there, I still would rather they bin the 6 miles of useless wiring, horn, steering lock and junk 99% will never use, strip the bike down and offer all that extra junk on BYOB.

Number plates: most races use transponders any way, back up scoring usually is done from the front number, if you ride off grid (spare me the lecture if not)  you are only marking your self. I'd guess they made minimal economical changes this year for a an engine update the following year.   

     

[FORMA MOTO]

54 minutes ago, weantright said:

All those that hated FI now have twice the reason! For the rest of us better overall running quality and should help with mileage a bit. As for the kicker... I'll go with cost reduction over weight. Most don't use it to begin with and with Beta charge them heavily afterwards for the ones that feel the need to have it. KTM is not the only brand to cost cut their product.

Uh, the dual injectors are on REAL motorcycles, the four strokes.

[Piney Woods]

Your preference bass or catfish?

[matgaz]

21 minutes ago, YHGEORGE said:

Your preference bass or catfish?

Cod

[hawaiidirtrider]

3 hours ago, Krannie McKranface said:

Uh, the dual injectors are on REAL motorcycles, the four strokes.

? ?

Edited June 16, 2017 by hawaiidirtrider

[hawaiidirtrider]

18s are just announced...We gonna be bullshittin for a year on all of this...Everyone is jumping out of their seats. Its like this at least once a year and with new models.  Expect more tangents..?

[ccullins]

5 hours ago, Krannie McKranface said:

Uh, the dual injectors are on REAL motorcycles, the four strokes.

Beta USA just announced the US only RR-S models. After reading through it, it looks like no duel injection, no new air box and it keeps the side number plates. 

If I had to guess, I would assume it's to get the bikes to pass the EPA/Carb regulations in time to get the 2018's street legal. 

It did get all the other updates though.