2017 300 ping under light load rpm?

[95jersey]

So bike is a 2017 Husky TX300.

I installed a JD jet kit to help cure the horrible OEM jetting that is so often discussed on the 2017's.  I am pretty good with hearing and feeling jetting, so I had to modify the baseline after calling them.

Ended up with Blue needle 3.5 clip, 30 pilot, 430 main, AS 2 out

The jetting feels really good (not perfect, but pretty darn good).  I do notice while cruising some connector trails and roads under light 1/8th throttle (or less) in 5th or 6th there is an occasional pinging sound (sounds exactly like bad gas or light detonation).  I changed out the gas and I still get it.  The sound never comes under under load.  Just light cruising at constant 1/8th throttle.  Once I give it a little gas it goes away.  The bottom end doesn't feel lean at all.  It doesn't hang or have any typical lean conditions.  Going up another pilot size just makes it blubbery.

I am told by a local KTM dealer this is 100% normal and is the power valve making noise at cruising throttle position.  I am hearing others have similar issues.  I have owned many 2 strokes and never heard a power valve rattle sound like a pinging engine.  Any thoughts?

[nothinbutair]

I have a Lectron on my 2017 Husqvarna tx300. My setting was a bit on the rich side and had some pipe bang. Made a slightly leaner adjustment and the pipe bang disappeared..... How does your plug look? You may be a bit rich, also check your chain tension....

[95jersey]

13 hours ago, nothinbutair said:

I have a Lectron on my 2017 Husqvarna tx300. My setting was a bit on the rich side and had some pipe bang. Made a slightly leaner adjustment and the pipe bang disappeared..... How does your plug look? You may be a bit rich, also check your chain tension....

I know what pipe bang is and it is not that.  You can't tell anything by plug, gave up on that method years ago.  It is not a rich condition.

[KennyMc]

Hmmm, on my '17 300XC-W, before putting the RK-Tek head on, I was running the blue needle at 3.5, 32.5 pilot, 420 main and AS at 1 1/2.  This was at elevations from 3,000 - 5,500 and the bike ran great.  With the head I have gone up to a 37.5 pilot but I developed more spooge than I prefer.  I just installed the S1 needle jet so I am going to test out the 30 and 32 pilots again when I get back on the bike..........in 9 months......friggen ACL surgery?

[Bryce418]

38 minutes ago, KennyMc said:

 when I get back on the bike..........in 9 months......friggen ACL surgery?

9 months for acl recovery? I was only off for 3. What graft are you getting?

Edited May 31, 2017 by Bryce418

[ride200mi]

This may not apply, but I have a 2015 TE300. I live in AZ and found that I had to jet a little on the fat side to keep mine from pinging too. I also have a J&D kit. 

[Mikek671]

On 5/30/2017 at 5:20 PM, 95jersey said:

So bike is a 2017 Husky TX300.

I installed a JD jet kit to help cure the horrible OEM jetting that is so often discussed on the 2017's.  I am pretty good with hearing and feeling jetting, so I had to modify the baseline after calling them.

Ended up with Blue needle 3.5 clip, 30 pilot, 430 main, AS 2 out

The jetting feels really good (not perfect, but pretty darn good).  I do notice while cruising some connector trails and roads under light 1/8th throttle (or less) in 5th or 6th there is an occasional pinging sound (sounds exactly like bad gas or light detonation).  I changed out the gas and I still get it.  The sound never comes under under load.  Just light cruising at constant 1/8th throttle.  Once I give it a little gas it goes away.  The bottom end doesn't feel lean at all.  It doesn't hang or have any typical lean conditions.  Going up another pilot size just makes it blubbery.

I am told by a local KTM dealer this is 100% normal and is the power valve making noise at cruising throttle position.  I am hearing others have similar issues.  I have owned many 2 strokes and never heard a power valve rattle sound like a pinging engine.  Any thoughts?

If it makes you feel any better I have the same condition on mine.  Running 27.5 pilot and needle is at position 2.5 (Blue) for summer temps (3.0 Winter) but it does it no matter which clip setting. Mixing 50:1 Amsoil and have tried every octane fuel under the sun, the problem never goes away - I do think it is the PV starting to open around 45-50 MPH and it fluttering  causing the noise.  50+ hours on my bike and I had the head off, piston has a nice burn pattern and it runs good so I am not too worried about it.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Mikek671

[M A T R]

If it makes you feel any better I have the same condition on mine.  Running 27.5 pilot and needle is at position three (Blue) for summer temps but it did the same at 3.5 too. Mixing 50:1 Amsoil and have tried every octane fuel under the sun, the problem never goes away - I do think it is the PV starting to open around 45-50 MPH and it fluttering  causing the noise.  I am throwing the S1 needle jet in mine to help add a bit of fuel in the pilot/needle overlap to smooth it out but I doubt it will help the noise we are experiencing.  50+ hours on my bike and I had the head off, piston has a nice burn pattern and it runs good so I am not too worried about it.

I'm starting to think the same thing about power valve fluttering and making that sound... never heard it on my old ktm...

[TommyB 754]

Try a richer pilot but it could be the powervalve. 

[95jersey]

I tried a richer pilot and no luck.  Trying race gas 103 octane mixed with 93 pump gas this weekend.  Should bring octane into the upper 90's.  That should eliminate any pinging due to detonation (if that is the cause).  If it still makes the noise, then we know it is the powervalve.

Will post my results after my ride.

[95jersey]

So after extensive testing this weekend I have BAD news.  First to be clear, I tried a richer pilot, then main and moved the clip position on different runs.  This did nothing, but make the bike run worse and I still had a ping under light loads.  If I leaned it out, it just got worse.

I bought 2 gallons of 101 octane race fuel and ran it with the 1/2 gallon (93 Super with 10% ethanol) left in the tank from the previous ride.  I ran it with the richer setting and the leaner setting and NO PING!  I leaned it out to my original JD setting and it ran crisp and clean with no ping.

My only conclusion is that the motor requires higher octane than available at the pump.  I can not claim this is an absolute issue across the board, as I only have my bike to test, but with many others also getting the pining noise, it is not an isolated incident.

I am very disappointed in my findings.  Honestly, in the back of my mind, I knew that no power valve should make a ping noise (like detonation) under light load and that was wishful thinking at best.  I really don't know what to do at this point.  My local race fuel is $10 per gallon (which is cheap for race fuel), so my weekly fuel costs just quadrupled ($2.50 gallon to $10 gallon).  I am going to try an additive like Torco, but you are not suppose to expose that to sunlight and we have translucent tanks.

Such a great bike, but this is a problem and may be a deal breaker.

[AltaRyder]

Now I want to test this. I have heard the high pitched ping sound under light throttle, didn't think much of it.  I thought detonation was more of a rocks in a can noise, not faint high pitch pinging.  I also though detonation was more load based too. Bike runs clean and crisp, no lean bogs and has minor spooge.  I'll buy some race gas and see though.

[TommyB 754]

On 6/19/2017 at 6:12 AM, 95jersey said:

So after extensive testing this weekend I have BAD news.  First to be clear, I tried a richer pilot, then main and moved the clip position on different runs.  This did nothing, but make the bike run worse and I still had a ping under light loads.  If I leaned it out, it just got worse.

I bought 2 gallons of 101 octane race fuel and ran it with the 1/2 gallon (93 Super with 10% ethanol) left in the tank from the previous ride.  I ran it with the richer setting and the leaner setting and NO PING!  I leaned it out to my original JD setting and it ran crisp and clean with no ping.

My only conclusion is that the motor requires higher octane than available at the pump.  I can not claim this is an absolute issue across the board, as I only have my bike to test, but with many others also getting the pining noise, it is not an isolated incident.

I am very disappointed in my findings.  Honestly, in the back of my mind, I knew that no power valve should make a ping noise (like detonation) under light load and that was wishful thinking at best.  I really don't know what to do at this point.  My local race fuel is $10 per gallon (which is cheap for race fuel), so my weekly fuel costs just quadrupled ($2.50 gallon to $10 gallon).  I am going to try an additive like Torco, but you are not suppose to expose that to sunlight and we have translucent tanks.

Such a great bike, but this is a problem and may be a deal breaker.

It also could be the ethanol causing the ping, no access to non eth? this site may help https://www.pure-gas.org/ 

Here we can get VP110 at the pump for $8.99/gallon or 101 low lead for $6.99/gallon but I don't use either in my mod motors that require high octane, I use AV gas, 105/106 motor octane rating and $3.99/gallon. Not sure where you live but it's normally readily available to the public at small public airports & airstrips. 

What map are you running? does it do it on both? a different cdi with less timing may cure it if you want to run pump or you could modify the stator plate to allow you to reduce timing.

Have you checked your squish? 

Also you can keep weening it off race gas(keeping track of your race vs pump ratio) till it starts back up then add some back to the mix for a consistent formula. I'd guess you'd need less then 50/50 mix as you seem to be the first i've read having det issues, I haven't even read about SX's or TC's needing it and they have a even higher compression high and more aggressive timing.  

[95jersey]

14 hours ago, JKM said:

If you install one of our heads, the pinging will disappear and you will be able to run 100% pump gas.. 

 

How's that?  I always thought most modified heads raise compression?

[rlucas1986]

5 hours ago, 95jersey said:

How's that?  I always thought most modified heads raise compression?

This can be verified by me at least, I do not have a ping with my TX300 and RKTek head. I use 92 octane pump gas. RK Tek heads do not raise the compression that much.

JD has confirmed that with his TE250 adding an SX head has pretty much eliminated his "ping" as well. An Sx head raises the compression quite a bit (in the one instance I know of, 185psi up to 205psi), so the ping doesn't seem related to High compression (or fuel).

[TommyB 754]

30 minutes ago, rlucas1986 said:

This can be verified by me at least, I do not have a ping with my TX300 and RKTek head. I use 92 octane pump gas. RK Tek heads do not raise the compression that much.

JD has confirmed that with his TE250 adding an SX head has pretty much eliminated his "ping" as well. An Sx head raises the compression quite a bit (in the one instance I know of, 185psi up to 205psi), so the ping doesn't seem related to High compression (or fuel).

Did you have detonation before adding the head?

I've never see JD mention any problems of detonation, he(JD) has been chasing and talking about a different issue - "pipe bang". Pinging which is pre ignition aka detonation is completely different running condition. Pipe bang though annoying will not cause major motor damage like detonation will. 

[rlucas1986]

Hmm, I am not sure if the "pinging" under light load that you were talking about is detonation. My bike made the same noise under light load, as you described, but I don't think it was detonation... maybe! However, I remember thinking the noise almost sounded like gravel in the expansion chamber. The noise did have me worried enough to try different jetting. That noise was mostly eradicated by richer jetting (43-73 needle, 2nd clip, pilot jet 42.5, main 460) and would only show up in very few situations. It is completely gone now with RK Tek head. Noise was worse with JD recommended kit, showroom floor stock was better. JD's kit was way too lean for my bike. Maybe try jetting it out first using a much larger pilot jet and stock needles.

 

EDIT:

I finally read the whole thread! I see you tried a richer pilot! how much richer? Weird how fuel is what was the difference for you. More ethanol in your fuel in your area maybe?

Edited June 21, 2017 by rlucas1986

[95jersey]

15 hours ago, rlucas1986 said:

Hmm, I am not sure if the "pinging" under light load that you were talking about is detonation. My bike made the same noise under light load, as you described, but I don't think it was detonation... maybe! However, I remember thinking the noise almost sounded like gravel in the expansion chamber. The noise did have me worried enough to try different jetting. That noise was mostly eradicated by richer jetting (43-73 needle, 2nd clip, pilot jet 42.5, main 460) and would only show up in very few situations. It is completely gone now with RK Tek head. Noise was worse with JD recommended kit, showroom floor stock was better. JD's kit was way too lean for my bike. Maybe try jetting it out first using a much larger pilot jet and stock needles.

 

EDIT:

I finally read the whole thread! I see you tried a richer pilot! how much richer? Weird how fuel is what was the difference for you. More ethanol in your fuel in your area maybe?

It is not the fuel.  I have the same 10% ethanol that is available everywhere else and have used it in other bikes for several years now with no issue.  Ethanol actually has higher octane rating that regular gas, it is just that it evaporates faster and leaves residue in your carb.    

This bike is the only bike that does it.  It is detonation, no doubt about it at this point, and that power valve explanation is nonsense.    Race fuel would not fix a power valve rattle...period.  I tried pilot from 27-40 and main 400-440 and every clip position in between.  I finally wound up with 30 pilot, 430 main, 3.5 clip JD red, 2 AS out, but I have to run race fuel to eliminate the ping.  Running anything richer, just makes the bike run worse and does not eliminate the ping.

If you still get the ping even with your richer jetting, try a tank of race gas and see if it goes away.  I bet it does 100% and then you know for sure.  Maybe I have to try the RK Tek head, BUT I am VERY VERY VERY disappointed after spending $10k on this bike, that I have to dump more money into it.

[rlucas1986]

1 hour ago, 95jersey said:

It is not the fuel.  I have the same 10% ethanol that is available everywhere else and have used it in other bikes for several years now with no issue.  Ethanol actually has higher octane rating that regular gas, it is just that it evaporates faster and leaves residue in your carb.    

This bike is the only bike that does it.  It is detonation, no doubt about it at this point, and that power valve explanation is nonsense.    Race fuel would not fix a power valve rattle...period.  I tried pilot from 27-40 and main 400-440 and every clip position in between.  I finally wound up with 30 pilot, 430 main, 3.5 clip JD red, 2 AS out, but I have to run race fuel to eliminate the ping.  Running anything richer, just makes the bike run worse and does not eliminate the ping.

If you still get the ping even with your richer jetting, try a tank of race gas and see if it goes away.  I bet it does 100% and then you know for sure.  Maybe I have to try the RK Tek head, BUT I am VERY VERY VERY disappointed after spending $10k on this bike, that I have to dump more money into it.

It sounds like it's much worse on your bike than others, I would be frustrated too.

[AltaRyder]

This is what detonation sounds like.  Head gasket failure is usually a good indication.  I'm surprised these guys did have a ring failure.
 

 Not sure what the light ballpeen hammer on solid metal noise is thats on my bike unless thats what a mild form of detonation sounds like.  Such a light load I find it difficult to believe its detonation.  Maybe its just poor ignition timing?  Still have to do the Race gas test.