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GoneDirtBikeN

Beginner level scrubbing

25 posts in this topic

So I started playing around with scrubbing just a little bit. A while back, the track I go to the most had a left turn going right into a small table top. So that was natural to do a little bit of a scrub; in fact it was hard not to in this section. They re-did that track layout so it is no longer there. But I was recently to a sand track that is a couple hours away. This track had mostly smallish features and I had a really good time riding without the concern of over extending my abilities. Anyways. The track had a couple of singles. Right after the singles were straight ruts so I did not want to be going high and landing hard right in the middle of them so I started to try scrubbing a little. Keep in mind it was beginner level scrubbing so I would hazard to guess that if you were behind me, it was probably barely noticeable. However, it did kept my trajectory lower, I could go into the single with more speed, land right in front of the ruts and get right on the throttle. Result was that it was like the straight ruts were not even there and it was definitely a faster way through these sections for me.

 

Back to the track I go to the most, has a bunch of double/triples. I only double but I find myself going deeper into the doubles sometimes to the point of overshooting them a bit. So I figure it may be time to pick which one of these to start practicing my "Beginner level scrubbing". There are a couple table tops at this track so I figure I should start there to get a feel for in on those particular track/dirt conditions and then take it to one of the doubles.

 

My mind seems to be resistant to going bigger/higher to start tackling triples, so I'm thinking this may be my next baby step. Comments/advice?

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Posted (edited)

GDB ... I'm not one to tell people how much risk to take but just consider if you really need to scrub those jumps  or if you are talking yourself into needing this skill but in reality they just look really cool.

 

And they do look really cool. My local has a corner going into a small table top just like yours. I always come off that jump more than a little sideways and have evolved from fighting it to embracing it.   For a brief moment I look and feel the part. It's great fun. But it's the same corner/jump combo every time. What you are looking to do is a whole other level.

 

I'm a 55 y.o. novice like you. I am determined to be a bad ass cornering machine. The old guy with sneaky speed who the high flyers and straightway daredevils never thought would be passing them.

 

Let us know if you go for it.

Edited by gatorfan
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jumps for show, corners for dough...

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GDB ... I'm not one to tell people how much risk to take but just consider if you really need to scrub those jumps  or if you are talking yourself into needing this skill but in reality they just look really cool.

 

And they do look really cool. My local has a corner going into a small table top just like yours. I always come off that jump more than a little sideways and have evolved from fighting it to embracing it.   For a brief moment I look and feel the part. It's great fun. But it's the same corner/jump combo every time. What you are looking to do is a whole other level.

 

I'm a 55 y.o. novice like you. I am determined to be a bad ass cornering machine. The old guy with sneaky speed who the high flyers and straightway daredevils never thought would be passing them.

 

Let us know if you go for it.

 

 

So to put this into perspective, watch Herlings take the single between 3:19-3:23 in https://youtu.be/835KGeSbpDc?list=PLxR86UD-Ub2rbR79iIEdt2me9tNcd1rw9. The single I was doing this on at the sand track is about the same height but just a bit farther away from a turn. As I mentioned, I would expect that I'm barely even pitching the bike over enough to be noticed - but that is the part I want to work on a bit more (a bit more, not a lot). Way safer than launching big off of a double IMO. I think the problem is that we all see videos of people doing insanely huge whips and scrubs. I'm convinced there is a way to start small at this (scrub not whip) and work up a little from that. I don't feel the need to be dragging my handlebars scrubbing LoL. Actually an even better example of what I'm after is at 1:03 - more or less a bit of a flick of the bike with the knees and then bringing it right back; to me this seems relatively simple but effective.

 

Needing this skill: I notice that in other sports I do (snow skiing, snowboarding, wakeboarding, etc) that if I get a flow going in one area it bleeds (I shouldn't use that term talking about MX, LoL) over and I tend to improve overall. I feel that as much as if not even more in MX. The trick of course is not to get too carried away by that feeling. I could definitely feel that effect while I was at the sand track doing this. There was a nice little 90 degree turn with a small inner bank right past that single. I was soon nicely slipping the rear tire against that bank and throttling out of that turn very nicely to take the subsequent table top, then charging down the straight stretch, riding high on the berm of the sweeper to avoid the whooped out part (Find Better Lines!) ... I really feel adding that one little thing (or better yet stringing a couple together) contributes to improved flow around the rest of the track.

 

Sad thing is I just seen pictures of the sand tracks earlier today. Search for "repracing" on Instragram if you want to see them. They are in the floodplain here in NorCal. We had some heavy storms go through this past several days and the tracks are flooded out. Feeling sad for the RepRacing and MMX businesses.

 

So I will need to think of which jumps to take this to on my local track even more so. I'm thinking the best place to start is the table top or the single that takes you onto a tabletop. Starting small and taking baby steps. Well see if my riding buddy even notices what I'm doing or at least attempting to do.

Edited by GoneDirtBikeN

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how much can you soak it up strait jumping? If you aren't doing that at the limit of what you are comfortable with regularly, then there is no reason to start scrubbing. If you are comfortable, it's a very natural progression to start doing it off to one side. Lean when you want to turn going up the face. Eventually you be able to scrub hard enough to need to start turning up the face.

Edited by temporarily_locked
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Sad thing is I just seen pictures of the sand tracks earlier today. Search for "repracing" on Instragram if you want to see them. They are in the floodplain here in NorCal. We had some heavy storms go through this past several days and the tracks are flooded out. Feeling sad for the RepRacing and MMX businesses.

Saw that yesterday, pretty sad. At least they can start a jet ski park! Edited by Egdt

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So to put this into perspective, watch Herlings take the single between 3:19-3:23 in https://youtu.be/835KGeSbpDc?list=PLxR86UD-Ub2rbR79iIEdt2me9tNcd1rw9. The single I was doing this on at the sand track is about the same height but just a bit farther away from a turn. As I mentioned, I would expect that I'm barely even pitching the bike over enough to be noticed - but that is the part I want to work on a bit more (a bit more, not a lot). Way safer than launching big off of a double IMO. I think the problem is that we all see videos of people doing insanely huge whips and scrubs. I'm convinced there is a way to start small at this (scrub not whip) and work up a little from that. I don't feel the need to be dragging my handlebars scrubbing LoL. Actually an even better example of what I'm after is at 1:03 - more or less a bit of a flick of the bike with the knees and then bringing it right back; to me this seems relatively simple but effective.

Needing this skill: I notice that in other sports I do (snow skiing, snowboarding, wakeboarding, etc) that if I get a flow going in one area it bleeds (I shouldn't use that term talking about MX, LoL) over and I tend to improve overall. I feel that as much as if not even more in MX. The trick of course is not to get too carried away by that feeling. I could definitely feel that effect while I was at the sand track doing this. There was a nice little 90 degree turn with a small inner bank right past that single. I was soon nicely slipping the rear tire against that bank and throttling out of that turn very nicely to take the subsequent table top, then charging down the straight stretch, riding high on the berm of the sweeper to avoid the whooped out part (Find Better Lines!) ... I really feel adding that one little thing (or better yet stringing a couple together) contributes to improved flow around the rest of the track.

Sad thing is I just seen pictures of the sand tracks earlier today. Search for "repracing" on Instragram if you want to see them. They are in the floodplain here in NorCal. We had some heavy storms go through this past several days and the tracks are flooded out. Feeling sad for the RepRacing and MMX businesses.

So I will need to think of which jumps to take this to on my local track even more so. I'm thinking the best place to start is the table top or the single that takes you onto a tabletop. Starting small and taking baby steps. Well see if my riding buddy even notices what I'm doing or at least attempting to do.

I know exactly which jump you're talking about if you're referring to the MMX Sand track. Or there's two I'm thinking of I guess.

Scrubbing is something I need to work on myself, I am probably right there with you as far as doing "beginner level" scrubs. I think both the sand track and main track have some great corners to practice this technique. Hopefully now that I have my suspension dialed it'll be even more natural feeling.

So sad to see everything under water :( I didn't even care about localised flooding here, all I was worried about was the river flowing over there. I knew E Street would flood, Riverfront I'd hoped the banks were high enough. I feel terrible for Zeb and all the work he's put in. Wish we could all get out there and help

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how much can you soak it up strait jumping? If you aren't doing that at the limit of what you are comfortable with regularly, then there is no reason to start scrubbing. If you are comfortable, it's a very natural progression to start doing it off to one side. Lean when you want to turn going up the face. Eventually you be able to scrub hard enough to need to start turning up the face.

 

Yep, I'm able to, comfortable with, do it regularly and consistently, and getting about the most I'm going to get out of  just plain soaking up the rebound. I'm pretty conscience of how much the bike is compressing and control that as well when I want extra height for distance. Then I also control the bike for less compression (to what degree you can) and soak up the launch/rebound as much as possible. OK, so sounds like a way to proceed. Looking forward to when the weather breaks and I can try this on a dirt track - as when they are not slippery as all get out from the rain we been getting.

 

At the track where I was beginning to do this there were actually two singles that stand out. The first one is right after you start and just beyond a 90-degree left. For whatever reason I did not even thing about scrubbing that one. But I was definable soaking it up all I could. The one I was practicing this "beginning scrubbing" on was on the back section of the track. I first was just soaking it up; then I felt comfortable about going at it with more speed but wanted to keep the height down. Plus I just wanted to add something new into my practice laps (progression).

 

I know exactly which jump you're talking about if you're referring to the MMX Sand track. Or there's two I'm thinking of I guess.

Scrubbing is something I need to work on myself, I am probably right there with you as far as doing "beginner level" scrubs. I think both the sand track and main track have some great corners to practice this technique. Hopefully now that I have my suspension dialed it'll be even more natural feeling.

So sad to see everything under water :( I didn't even care about localised flooding here, all I was worried about was the river flowing over there. I knew E Street would flood, Riverfront I'd hoped the banks were high enough. I feel terrible for Zeb and all the work he's put in. Wish we could all get out there and help

 

Yep, the MMX sand track; undoubtable we are thinking of the same jumps (see above).  I was having so much fun on that track that I did not even take any laps on the main track. I should have went to the main track and taken a couple of laps to familiarize myself with it. The OTHG will be having a race there this year where they will be combining the main track with the sand track. Oh well, a good excuse to go back (kind of did that intentionally. LoL).

 

I actually had myself a little MX vacation over the holidays. Out of 13 days off I rode MX 10 of those days. Two days were rain-outs and the last of the three no-ride-day-for me was "I tired of bike prep, cleanup and driving x hours to find an open track". I stayed overnight in the Marysville at a motel and rode MMX one day and then E Street the following. I also rode MMX on another of those 10 days. Previously I only rode the main track at E Street. A couple other older guys from Oregon talked me into taking a few laps on the little track - that was fun to take some "no stress" laps compared to the main track at E Street. Oh, and of the 10 days I rode, 8 of those days I seen others have injuries including broken femur (ClubMoto), broken collar bone (Argyll), broken wrist (ClubMoto), messed up hip (MMX), etc. That was the most injuries I seen so far in any stretch of riding. Just like snow skiing, seems like the holidays bring out the people who over extend their abilities and end up paying for it. I was grateful to ride so much and stay healthy.

 

The days I was at MMX I was talking to a couple dads from Oregon who had their kids with them. They actually rode MMX during the day and then hit up Riverfront in the evening - both freaking times I seen them. So they out-did me, My guess is that the kids rode Riverfront while the dads drank beer - LoL!

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I know around Christmas time they were open the whole week, I think they're usually open different days? But if I could hit MMX on a Tuesday/Thursday while they're open and then Riverfront after I'd love to do that. Both tracks are way fun.

I'm sure more than anything, just like every other part of this sport, it'd just the confidence and seat time needed to be able to scrub. I still clench a little in the air when the bike gets sideways, I think I focus too much on having good form on landing and correcting mid air if needed.

There's a couple of jumps at River, one is a single coming out of sharp right that would be a great jump to practice Scrubbing on. And another step on-off that you can safely double or triple if you've really got the nuts for it. I've noticed the faster I get the more comfortable I've become having to mini scrub off of it. I say mini scrub because like yourself it's probably barely noticeable and I always assumed Scrubbing meant I had to be hitting the jump with the bike laid over almost flat [emoji23]

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I know around Christmas time they were open the whole week, I think they're usually open different days? But if I could hit MMX on a Tuesday/Thursday while they're open and then Riverfront after I'd love to do that. Both tracks are way fun.

I'm sure more than anything, just like every other part of this sport, it'd just the confidence and seat time needed to be able to scrub. I still clench a little in the air when the bike gets sideways, I think I focus too much on having good form on landing and correcting mid air if needed.

There's a couple of jumps at River, one is a single coming out of sharp right that would be a great jump to practice Scrubbing on. And another step on-off that you can safely double or triple if you've really got the nuts for it. I've noticed the faster I get the more comfortable I've become having to mini scrub off of it. I say mini scrub because like yourself it's probably barely noticeable and I always assumed Scrubbing meant I had to be hitting the jump with the bike laid over almost flat [emoji23]

The Repracing (Riverfront, E-street and Prairie City) and MMX tracks have been hard to figure out when they are open. Their web sites and facebook pages tend to have outdated (summer hours) on them. I count more on their Instagram posts and calling their hotlines. I'm sure a lot of that is due to winter weather (rain) variability. I would say both however do a good job of track prep wrt the weather. It was the week just after Christmas that they were open the whole week. I would have rode there more but they are so far from me compared to other tracks (Clubmoto is literally 15 minute trip for me).

 

My first, and only time at Riverfront, that step-on-off was a new thing to me and initially just blew my mind. I started the evening with "yea, I'm just rolling that all night long". Then after the track broke in and I was following behind some of the faster riders through that section I started thinking "that double part is actually kind of short, just need to have a good speed choice so you don't over-shoot and get screwy on the step-off part". Not long after, a good rider past me going down the straight stretch before the right hander that is before the step-on-off. My mind clicked with "just somewhat match his speed and you'll do it". I just compressed the suspension a bit while doing the step-off part and all was well. That jump was so fun the rest of the evening. No way do I have the nuts to triple that! Weather turned cold and being next to the river I decided I'll wait until better weather (I figure beginning of March) to go back there in the evenings.

 

I've gotten much more comfortable with the bike going a little sideways leaving jumps. Now that I understand when it can/will happen, like not hitting a rut line going off the face perfect, I'm able to anticipate it a bit more. That allows me to ensure that i really grip the bike tight with my legs - the bike kicks sideways less and nicely straightens back out while in the air. I found this same effect doing this "beginner level" scrubbing. When I was doing that at MMX the bike was perfectly straight on landing and the attitude of the bike (front vs rear wheel height) was likewise perfect coming back onto the ground; I was a lot more comfortable getting on the throttle for the landing and accelerating away. We'll see where this leads.

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jumps for show, corners for dough...

Exactly!!!

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jumps for show, corners for dough...

 

 

Exactly!!!

 

 

But isn't that exactly the point. Since I'm not willing to triple, I have to hold back to land in the double section. I have to slow up even before I get to the jump so that I can hold the throttle on through the lip of the jump as not to endo. So I'm looking to be able to hold down the height of the jump, get the wheels back on the ground quicker to get to the corner quicker.

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If you have the will and desire to do it, then go for it. I have neither and prefer the turns tactic, as that is where and what works. If you notice, most are really slow in turns and lack technique, etc. I love the whole scrub thing, but came along a Lil to late to sweat it.

I say go for it and document your progress

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But isn't that exactly the point. Since I'm not willing to triple, I have to hold back to land in the double section. I have to slow up even before I get to the jump so that I can hold the throttle on through the lip of the jump as not to endo. So I'm looking to be able to hold down the height of the jump, get the wheels back on the ground quicker to get to the corner quicker.

So you'll take the risk learning how to scrub but not triple?

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It looks to me the OP doesn't realize there is scrubbing and whipping, with big difference between the two. He could really be asking for tips on whipping. With scrubbing, there is no "beginner level" since you have to be comfortable with sliding your front wheel off the jump takeoff with pretty good speed. Try googling "Bubba scrubba" for a demonstration of how it's done.

Edited by vlad7890

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It looks to me the OP doesn't realize there is scrubbing and whipping, with big difference between the two. He could really be asking for tips on whipping. With scrubbing, there is no "beginner level" since you have to be comfortable with sliding your front wheel off the jump takeoff with pretty good speed. Try googling "Bubba scrubba" for a demonstration of how it's done.

 

Scrub: lean left, turn left

Whip: lean left, turn right

 

In post # 4 of this thread, I reference two time spots; what would you say Herlings is doing off those singles?

 

 

 

Seems to me for a whip, you got to be committed and and go big.

 

http://www.mxtrainingblog.com/riding-techniques/the-scrub/ -

"it is important to start things slow and on a single or something small; eventually "

"need to practice this and start small"

Scrub.JPG

Edited by GoneDirtBikeN

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So you'll take the risk learning how to scrub but not triple?

 

 

Again, I would point out what Herlings is doing at 1:03 and 3:19-3:23 in 

. You think launching big to clear a triple is safer?

 

I was at one point working on one triple I picked out but it is at a track I don't go to that often. The triple part was such that it was not much worse than a table top so little penalty for casing it and coming up short. Plus it had a good run between the corner and the jump so it was easier for me on my 250. I was getting to around a bike length +/- short of clearing it. The track I go to the most is really tight so I have not attempted any there.

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Again, I would point out what Herlings is doing at 1:03 and 3:19-3:23 in https://youtu.be/835...Edt2me9tNcd1rw9. You think launching big to clear a triple is safer?

I was at one point working on one triple I picked out but it is at a track I don't go to that often. The triple part was such that it was not much worse than a table top so little penalty for casing it and coming up short. Plus it had a good run between the corner and the jump so it was easier for me on my 250. I was getting to around a bike length +/- short of clearing it. The track I go to the most is really tight so I have not attempted any there.

Sorry, forgot I was talking to Jeffrey Herrlings... :rolleyes:

Don't compare yourself to a professional. Every thing is different, from the bikes, suspension, gear, training etc etc. You and I are just some unpaid local spoads, nothing more...

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Sorry, forgot I was talking to Jeffrey Herrlings... :rolleyes:

Don't compare yourself to a professional. Every thing is different, from the bikes, suspension, gear, training etc etc. You and I are just some unpaid local spoads, nothing more...

 

 

Thanks you very much but I think I'm very well aware of who I am and what my ability level is.  :)

 

Where exactly is it that you got "compare yourself to a professional"? I used that video and point to reference what I was looking to accomplish rather than an full out "bubba scrub". 

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Thanks you very much but I think I'm very well aware of who I am and what my ability level is. :)

Where exactly is it that you got "compare yourself to a professional"? I used that video and point to reference what I was looking to accomplish rather than an full out "bubba scrub".

Herrlings is hitting that bump at minimum a full gear, maybe even 2 higher then you. Adding to that, his transmission probably has closer ratios allowing him to stay in the powerband easier, his works suspension allows him to hit the face faster then you and I... Like mentioned, work on corners and the scrubbing will come with speed...

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