Does anybody actually adhere to the factory service intervals?

[yamhammer]

So I am looking at the service manual for the 2003 WR450F ive been doodling around on. 

 

The oil is supposed to be changed every 1000 km or 620 miles. 

 

Does anybody actually do this?

 

Granted, I discovered today that it is very low, so perhaps it makes not so much difference if I dump out the rest. What there is looks really nice and clean though. still quite light in color. 

 

If it makes any difference to opinions on interval, I'm running Castrol full synthetic Power RS Racing 4T 10w50

 

 

 

 

also shocking is the prescribed interval for Inspecting and/or replacing the Piston Rings, also every 620 miles or 5th race?!

 

and the list goes on. 

perhaps I ought to follow the instructions and tighten the rotor nut every 620 miles? or perhaps I should check it once, put some loctite on it and forget about it? 

 

 

I absolutely love this bike, but if these service intervals are Dead Serious, im afraid I could have picked the wrong machine to put the street legal kit on and haul a$$ back and forth to work and such. 

 

I read somewhere somebody saying the cylinder would need to be replaced after appx 4000 miles at highway speeds. is this statement in order? Is that assessment based on TIP TOP racing performance criteria or is it going to be shot to death at that point? One of the guys at work who races a little says they typically do a top end every 100 hours? This just sounds ridiculous. are they all crazy or are dirtbikes simply built with everything except longevity in mind?

 

Also, I guess i may want to check the valve clearances? how often do you guys do that? 

Is it like a REALLY BAD thing if it pops a little as i downshift and around mid throttle in low gears? or is this "Just What They DO" and its obvious because I got a noisy pipe right under my butt. I suspect this is really just what they do. I've noticed SIGNIFICANT popping even from a brand new Mustang GT, so I'm not so concerned. 

 

Hell, worst case scenario I replace a head and a jug. Apparently Im supposed to do that about every time i change my underwear anyway, so i guess im not doing too bad. 

 

 

further, do i need to reconsider my habit of cruising at 80 and cranking it up on occasion- ive found it tops out around 105. Im probably doing awful things to it up there. Not to mention the crappy front tire is only rated for 75. Any guesses what the speed limit of the tire is based off of? when they figure it's going to rip to bits and blow off the bike? oddly, the same Shinko 244 rear tire is rated to 93. I wonder why the front is not the same. Nothing has exhibited any signs of adverse behavior to date

 

I have put about 850 miles on this thing since I got it this spring, mostly road. Some Fun Stuff. 

It had about 720 when I got it. For its age, it seemed like pretty low miles. Granted, thats by Highway Vehicle standards. 

Any guesses what a long interval for total engine rebuild is?

 

 

k. Im gonna quit rambling about. 

laterz, yo

 

thanks

Edited June 25, 2016 by yamhammer

[FORMA MOTO]

So I am looking at the service manual for the 2003 WR450F ive been doodling around on. 

 

The oil is supposed to be changed every 1000 km or 620 miles. 

 

Does anybody actually do this?

 

Granted, I discovered today that it is very low, so perhaps it makes not so much difference if I dump out the rest. What there is looks really nice and clean though. still quite light in color. 

 

If it makes any difference to opinions on interval, I'm running Castrol full synthetic Power RS Racing 4T 10w50

 

 

 

 

also shocking is the prescribed interval for Inspecting and/or replacing the Piston Rings, also every 620 miles or 5th race?!

 

and the list goes on. 

perhaps I ought to follow the instructions and tighten the rotor nut every 620 miles? or perhaps I should check it once, put some loctite on it and forget about it? 

 

 

I absolutely love this bike, but if these service intervals are Dead Serious, im afraid I could have picked the wrong machine to put the street legal kit on and haul a$$ back and forth to work and such. 

 

I read somewhere somebody saying the cylinder would need to be replaced after appx 4000 miles at highway speeds. is this statement in order? Is that assessment based on TIP TOP racing performance criteria or is it going to be shot to death at that point? One of the guys at work who races a little says they typically do a top end every 100 hours? This just sounds ridiculous. are they all crazy or are dirtbikes simply built with everything except longevity in mind?

 

Also, I guess i may want to check the valve clearances? how often do you guys do that? 

Is it like a REALLY BAD thing if it pops a little as i downshift and around mid throttle in low gears? or is this "Just What They DO" and its obvious because I got a noisy pipe right under my butt. I suspect this is really just what they do. I've noticed SIGNIFICANT popping even from a brand new Mustang GT, so I'm not so concerned. 

 

Hell, worst case scenario I replace a head and a jug. Apparently Im supposed to do that about every time i change my underwear anyway, so i guess im not doing too bad. 

 

 

further, do i need to reconsider my habit of cruising at 80 and cranking it up on occasion- ive found it tops out around 105. Im probably doing awful things to it up there. Not to mention the crappy front tire is only rated for 75. Any guesses what the speed limit of the tire is based off of? when they figure it's going to rip to bits and blow off the bike? oddly, the same Shinko 244 rear tire is rated to 93. I wonder why the front is not the same. Nothing has exhibited any signs of adverse behavior to date

 

I have put about 850 miles on this thing since I got it this spring, mostly road. Some Fun Stuff. 

It had about 720 when I got it. For its age, it seemed like pretty low miles. Granted, thats by Highway Vehicle standards. 

Any guesses what a long interval for total engine rebuild is?

 

 

k. Im gonna quit rambling about. 

laterz, yo

 

thanks

 

 

No.

Those are typical japanese 'let's not get a bad brand reputation' specs.

The track bikes are even worse.

...but if you were to actually race the bike at an expert or pro level, then the parts intervals are very meaningful.

 

I base the oil change intervals based on the ride, typically 3 rides or 180 miles.

More dust, then more often.

More sand, then more often.

All street, then less often.

Oil and filter.

 

Air filter when it is dirty to the eye.

 

Parts changing intervals have spec ranges. 

Follow those for your decision on what to change, not the clock. The clock is there to remind you to inspect.

You have to pull the cylinder to measure the piston and rings, but this is very good insurance.

I do it every 100-150 hours, and usually end up changing the rings every time, just becuase.

This turns out to be once a year (every other week end ride for 22 weeks).

 

100-200 hours on a closed course raced  top end is a very, very, VERY long time. Like watch it blow up if you are not careful, long time.

Experts go about 15-30 hours, and Pros go about 3 hours on a track bike for top end changes. They are taxing the motor to the max, so it's normal.

 

...but no one is out there racing a 2003 WR450F in anything but enduros, or less, so it's irrellevant.

 

If you rode you passenger car or truck the same way in the same environment as a dirt bike, you have have to adjust it's service intervals drastically too.....if it even survived them....

[William1]

Oil is changed every ten hours, filter every third oil change, I also do a valve clearance check at this time. Every 50 hours, a leak down test. Air filter, I look at it, if it is dirty, I put in a fresh one. Sometimes, one filter will last 20 hours, sometimes, not even a day.

[yamhammer]

yo Krannie,

THANKS for the input.

 

But believe it or not, Im still a tiny bit gray on some of my questions.

 

The service interval based on pro riders hashing every last ounce of power out of it vs Normal person/(novice) business makes obvious sense. But my pickle spot comes from the street ridden situation. 

It makes reasonable sense to expect longer service from something when treated as a "highway vehicle" just as you said if one was to treat said car as an off road vehicle like we do the interval would be dramatically adjusted or just ruin the vehicle. 

 

The question in point, while the street miles are potentially easier on the system, I do also get into the upper rpms I typically do not get into in the dirt at this stage in my dirtbiking experience. Ive learned how to stay out of the rev limiter for the most part, for a while i was getting into it every time i changed gears. it just didnt feel like it could possibly be turning 11k. 

 

Is this high rpm operation on the street liable to be as bad or worse on the engine as a pro thrashing it in a race?

 

I did see some chatter on the subject on a supermotard site, saying these bikes run forever, so im not too concerned

 

 

but oh wow, you change the oil after 180 miles?

That is literally each tank of gas, with the Acerbis 6.6 gallon jug I hung on it. 

All street less often, what do you figure? Hopefully I will get into the dirt much more in the future, but i need a good figure. Granted at 800 miles on the oil right now, it's too low. so perhaps the 6-800 range really should be absolute max.

Probably nobody even knows if it should or shouldnt be holding onto the oil any better as you all change it so religiously.

 

 

as for the piston rings, say I dont do them often enough, is it liable to screw something up horribly (Good Insurance against what?) that cant be remedied by well, a new set of rings? 

I dont wanna abuse this thing too bad but I havent gotten my head around the service interval thing yet, as im used to highway vehicles. 

[yamhammer]

thanks will. great to have some numbers.... 

 

and that is the greates t quote ive ever read. lol

[FORMA MOTO]

Use good oil.

If you want to extend your service intervals as far as possible, use Full Ester oil in the motor. 

It will usually last longer than you can keep it clean....but you have to change it anyway becuase of the dirt and combustion debris.

It is a lot more expensive ($12-18 per liter) but that's how you skip oil changes....

 

Air filter cleaning and oiling is the other factor.

Clean it properly.

You know when it's clean, when the solution you are cleaning it in is clear, be that water or solvent.

Soak it in filter oil and remove the excess.

 

 

 

Check the level every 100 miles (they all burn 5cc per couple of hours, no matter what brand or how new)

Change the oil every 500 miles.....but the only way to really know the condition of the oil is to have it analyzed for $20 bucks.

 

Send them a new sample and a 500+ hour sample and they will be able to tell you if the oil is still lubricating properly, and the kind of debris in it.

 

www.blackstone-labs.com

[yamhammer]

id like to hope the castrol full synthetic is good stuff. 

what is full ester? is that fancy talk for synthetic?

 

I just drained the oil a little bit ago. I was shocked and horrified with tinges of guilt about what came out. 

After about 800 miles, apparently i absolutely wasnt checking the oil enough, it only had MAAAYBE half a quart, probably much less of real dark oil left in it. 

 

at that rate id probably be doing it a favor by running the cheapest crap i could find and changing it every other weekend.

 

what is this filter oil? is something like K&N oil appropriate or should i find the right stuff?

 

thanks

[yamhammer]

Lifter Pads! 

Thats a new one on me. 

 

so do you guys all have a pill box full of these things?

[FORMA MOTO]

id like to hope the castrol full synthetic is good stuff. 

what is full ester? is that fancy talk for synthetic?

THE WORD 'SYNTHETIC' OR 'FULL SYNTHETIC' HAS NO MEANING IN THIS COUNTRY, BECAUSE THE OIL COMPANIES SUSCESSFULLY GOT THE WORD JUST REPRESENT ANY OIL THAT HAS BEEN MORE REFINED THAN THE AVERAGE AMOUNT. EG: 'MOBIL FULL SYNTHETIC' IS NOT SYNTHETIC AT ALL.

ESTER OR DOUBLE ESTER IS THE ONLY TRUE SYNTHETIC OIL.

 

I just drained the oil a little bit ago. I was shocked and horrified with tinges of guilt about what came out. 

After about 800 miles, apparently i absolutely wasnt checking the oil enough, it only had MAAAYBE half a quart, probably much less of real dark oil left in it. 

DUDE, YOU CANNOT GO THAT LONG!

SINGLE CYLINDER COMPETITION MOTORS HAVE SMALL SIZED RINGS, FEWER OF THEM , AND LESS PISTON SKIRT. IN OTHERWORDS THERE IS OIL BLOW BY AND OIL GETS CONSUMED.

NEARLY 5CC PER HOUR ON MOST BIKES

RACERS CAN LOOSE AS MUCH AS 50CC PER HOUR (CRF450R IN  BAJA)

 

 

at that rate id probably be doing it a favor by running the cheapest crap i could find and changing it every other weekend.

 

MAYBE. 

CHEAP OIL BREAKS DOWN FAST. LIKE IN SEVERAL HOURS.

 

 

what is this filter oil? is something like K&N oil appropriate or should i find the right stuff?

 

WHAT?  YOU DON'T WHAT FILTE OIL IS?

 

MAYBE THATS WHY YOU ARE BURNING OIL........SUCKING DIRT INTO YOUR MOTOR.... ?

 

thanks

[yamhammer]

that business on the synthetic sounds like crazy talk. i would hope thats not true but knowing this country, i might have to believe it. lol. 

 

So what oil DO you run? 

 

yeah i see. Not go that long at all and sure as hell check it more often. 

 

makes sense why they would have more blowby with that setup. I guess that was to reduce the friction

 

 

So what precisely is it about the racing environment that makes it consume so much oil, kill the cylinders, etc that I may or may not be emulating unwittingly by riding this thing on the highway?

 

immediate oil breakdown might not be exactly what im looking for either. lol.

 

well as for the filter oil, i only had this thing a couple months, and it seeming pretty clean when checked. It has the Honey like stuff on it. When the last time or how often it was cleaned I cant tell ya. the guy before may have totally hashed on this thing, idk.

 

 

 

 

as for the valve adjustment, have you ever had to replace these lifter pad things as noted in the manual?

[FORMA MOTO]

that business on the synthetic sounds like crazy talk. i would hope thats not true but knowing this country, i might have to believe it. lol. 

 

So what oil DO you run? 

 

yeah i see. Not go that long at all and sure as hell check it more often. 

 

makes sense why they would have more blowby with that setup. I guess that was to reduce the friction

 

 

So what precisely is it about the racing environment that makes it consume so much oil, kill the cylinders, etc that I may or may not be emulating unwittingly by riding this thing on the highway?

 

immediate oil breakdown might not be exactly what im looking for either. lol.

 

well as for the filter oil, i only had this thing a couple months, and it seeming pretty clean when checked. It has the Honey like stuff on it. When the last time or how often it was cleaned I cant tell ya. the guy before may have totally hashed on this thing, idk.

 

 

 

 

as for the valve adjustment, have you ever had to replace these lifter pad things as noted in the manual?

 

So you are saying you own this bike and you have not yet cleaned the air filter ??

 

You need to download a service manual and start reading.

 

This bike is NOT A CAR.

If you continue to treat it like it was a car or a streetbike, you are going to have some problems, all of which can be avoided.

 

I'm done.

[yamhammer]

Sorry to have perturbed the wizards. "I'm done" gee that's great.

These problems are what I do hope to avoid. With the caution or dismissal of those who know better than i. The whole reason I ever came here

Sorry to be such a noob.

Whatever

[Bitteeinbit]

Question: when you changed the oil, did you only drain it from the bottom or also from the frame?

[yamhammer]

Lol I wish I had been dumb and only drained the bottom. As it is I had been real dumb. I can't believe I didn't lunch the thing. Total juice in the engine and frame tank came to about 8 Oz when I poured it back in the bottle

[jamesm113]

Take a look at Shell Rotella T 15w40 Diesel oil.  It's cheap and works well for motorcycles as it does not have friction modifiers that can harm your clutch. Usually you can get a gallon for $13.

 

You can see an oil analysis of it here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=721552

 

EDIT:  Added my own oil analysis from my old '01 WR250f with rotella T.  It had a fill capacity of 1.7 quarts.

Edited June 28, 2016 by jamesm113

[MXJunky]

Poor Krannie, bent over backwards for this dude and got the "whatever".  lol out loud

[Nuklhed]

Hell no. I'm riding it until something breaks, then fix it.  I change the oil/filter at 150+ miles religiously because it holds so little.

[bikedude987]

You have no idea what you're doing and you get pissed when the people trying to help you with the utter basics get frustrated?!  YOU go read, YOU do some research.  This stuff is basic dirtbike maintenance and is explained in many locations, like your service manual...

[yamhammer]

Look guys the last thing I wanna do is piss off the biggest dirtbike forum there is. I know the value of a good forum.

And yes I have a manual and I have also been using it, perhaps not to the T . The whole point of this thread was to ask if the seemingly ridiculous points were appropriate. The consensus is no. In the same exact breeze of dismissal I had no idea how critical y'all consider a perfectly clean air filter to be. The frigging thing doesn't look like a bloody mud pie. I thought it looked fine. Then I get blasted and when I make a notion to the contrary I find myself hammering out a s#itty rebuttal against or perhaps pushing an ejection.

All I know is a big ego behind any one of our screens is a landmine.

Much more like what bike dude so kindly added and I won't need an ejection. I'll be quite done on my own.

Thanks jamesm and nuklhed for adding something constructive amidst the s#itstorm.

I've been running Rotella T in my old beater bike but never suspected it would come highly recommended for these thumpers too.

[Bitteeinbit]

I honestly think you bought the wrong bike for your needs. A DRZ would have been much better suited for your needs. More oil and much longer service intervals. You bought a racing dirtbike for daily commute...