Yz450 for a woods bike

JFYI. Running a smaller front sprocket just makes the engine work harder. You'd be better off running 13/50-ish

I've run 12/49 on my 09 450 for years. Not one problem. 

I've run 12/49 on my 09 450 for years. Not one problem. 

you'll poke your eye out!

First, I want to say thanks to "Olhillbilly" on here for showing me around today on some pretty good trails.

I really struggled in the gnarly stuff with the 450 however. If there was anything real technical and rough, I had to slip the hell out of the clutch to keep my line and the engine from dying, or else just focus on where I wanted to end up and hammer the throttle.

It seems first gear is really tall and the fact that the bike has no bottom end torque made it real difficult, coupled with the fact this is the first time I have hit the trails in over 20 years. Going under ten or so miles an hour, the bike just kept wanting to stall out and die.

Im running stock gearing, loaded on the MXA map, and have on a GYTR fww. The bike is a 2014. Is there anything I can do to make it more trail worthy short of going with a recluse. I was thinking going up a couple teeth on the rear sprocket, and messing with the map. What would you want to do, map wise, to give it some more low end chugging power?

As far as handling and suspension, I think the bike did great. If it had a little more tractor type power, I think it would be perfect for me.

I found the ticket for myself without having to invest in a rekluse (I still want one).

13 front, 52 rear with the "gradual response, smooth feeling" map. It cut my clutching down to half almost. It's the second map on the picture I put up.

Good luck.

ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1439468134.112177.jpg

I found the ticket for myself without having to invest in a rekluse (I still want one).

13 front, 52 rear with the "gradual response, smooth feeling" map. It cut my clutching down to half almost. It's the second map on the picture I put up.

Good luck.

attachicon.gifImageUploadedByThumper Talk1439468134.112177.jpg

thanks for the info.  those maps are for the 2014, correct?

 

I talked to the guy at tm designs last night and ended up with a 51 tooth rear sprocket.  with a 52, I would have had most likely had to gone with a longer chain.  the 51 will cut it close and move the wheel further forward.

 

he thought this would affect my handling in a negative way and also make the bike a lot more wheelie prone.

 

I hate getting ride of the chain since it is essentially new, so im going to try the 13/51 with the stock chain and go from there.

51 is geared low...

51 is geared low...

stock is a ratio of 3.769 and with a 13/51 would put the ratio at 3.923.  that's only 3.926 % lower than stock gearing.  im not even sure it will help at all, but worth a try.

 

just like the 4.4 gytr flywheel didn't seem to help much, im hoping that with a combination of the flywheel, lower gearing, new map, and turning up the idle speed will all accumulate and give me what im looking for, but then again, it might not.  if it doesn't, ill just have live with it for a few years until its time for a new bike.

Edited by rojapar

thanks for the info. those maps are for the 2014, correct?

Yes they are.

2011 yz450f Senior A  Colorado enduro/HS rider. Been running 13/50 gearing  GYTR 4 oz. flywheel weight and tried multiple maps. Most of them degrade the bike and accentuate the chassis weaknesses. The Jay Marmont map however, is the holy grail . The map is the key since you already have the gearing and flywheel weight..If you say the bike has no bottom end torque you are clearly running the wrong map. If you are aggressive you can keep it in the happy zone with the Marmont map. It absolutely RRRIPS out of the basement the nanosecond you open the throttle and keeps clawing for traction. Have tried the woods maps and they make it feel like an XR400 down low, with no improvement in stalling or throttle response.The Marmont map is as CRISP as anyone could want at all throttle positions, although not happy revving, a function of the motor design and cam, not the map.

 

Granted, in survival, slick, trials type situations you would rather be on  a KTM/Beta/Husky dedicated enduro bike or YZ250/CR250 smoker properly setup. But here out West we have to compromise between tight terrain  and whooped out desert/motocross type terrain,and long road stretches where the smokers suffer against the chassis and pulses of the 4 stroke.

 

There is a speed threshold that this bike demands(as do all other 4 stroke motocrossers) to be in the "zone". Fall below that threshold and the bike grows larger and unfriendly.

Get above that zone and you'll be glad you're not on anything smaller.

P.S. My buddy is a Colorado AA enduro rider with 600 hours on the same piston on a 2010 YZ450. 2 valve adjustments and 2 timing chains, original piston and rings.

Good luck with that on any other brand. To me, That alone is worth riding the Yamaha and dealing with its idiosyncracies.

...600 hours on the same piston on a 2010 YZ450. 2 valve adjustments and 2 timing chains, original piston and rings.

Good luck with that on any other brand. To me, That alone is worth riding the Yamaha and dealing with its idiosyncracies.

 

This.

 

But I would recommend replacing the piston.  Mine was starting to wear between the rings at close to 400.

I recently got a new guy with a 2015 YZ450F riding with us on tight woods trails.   He too was having trouble with stalling.   At my suggestion he put a 12 tooth sprocket on his bike.   We also had to turn up the idle speed.   He said it was a different bike once we did this.  It starts better and no more stalling.

 

All the Yamaha FI 450Fs in our group are running 12 tooth sprockets now.  Nobody thinks they are geared too low and everyone is doing well in the tight and technical trails we ride. 

 

I highly recommend the Yamaha FI 450Fs for 200+ pound riders.  I'm riding a WR, but I wouldn't shy away from a YZ at all.

 

We ride with a bunch of 300cc 2 strokes and more and more the other riders are saying they are getting "4 stroke envy".  Properly set up, the 450Fs are keeping up with the 300s in the tight and twisty stuff.   There is lots of terrain where the 450s are easier, smoother and less taxing to ride., at least for our level of riders, on our terrain.

The stock idle speed is 1900-2100.  What kind of idle speed are you guys using that are suggesting raising it up?

 

Thanks

The stock idle speed is 1900-2100.  What kind of idle speed are you guys using that are suggesting raising it up?

 

Thanks

 

 I don't know what it turned out to be.  We didn't put the programmer on it to find out.  Maybe we will in the future.

The stock idle speed is 1900-2100. What kind of idle speed are you guys using that are suggesting raising it up?

Thanks

I'm between 2150-2000 with a Rekluse...

Love this info, thanks boys, I have an 06 and I love the constant power but need it to be a bit friendlier idle wise down low in 1st and set up suspension. Thinking flywheel and that's it. Any other handy stuff keep wit coming. I'm an experienced track rider now getting back into trails riding.

Is there an updated version of the Jay Marmont map for the '14 + bikes? I ran it on my 2011 and it is a deadly map. Wasn't sure if it would have the same affect on the newer models.

Wanted to share my experience. Ive had my '13 450 for only a few days. It does have a 9oz flywheel and i believe stock gearing. My last bike was a gasgas 300 with rekluse. The 450 was a huge change. I kept stalling and the bike wanted to idle faster than I ride on single track at times.

I installed the rekluse z start pro and wow a huge difference. I am very happy with it. I wouldnt even consider hitting single track before the rekluse. Now after a few test runs ill be ready to get out with the crew! The suspension on this bike will take anything you thrown at it. I felt the bike was very predictable.

My only problem with the rekluse is a few stalls at log crossings and such. Need to figure out how to avoid that. I may adjust the springs on the rekluse. Before doing that though I'm going to make sure I cant change my ways a little bit by staying on the throttle a little more. That seems to be the issue. If anyone knows how to prevent this from the rekluse setup aspect Id appeciate the insight.

Also, I'm gonna try out some woods mapping eventually to see if that makes it even better.

Edited by Roostercogbern31

On your Rekluse, first, be certain that your idle is high enough to avoid stalling under "normal" operating conditions such as sudden throttle closings.  With a carb, I would also suggest being certain you haven't made it so rich that it causes the engine to fall past idle speed when idling down, as that's a common mistake.

 

Then, obviously, the engagement point, which is selected by choosing springs, needs to be such that the clutch releases cleanly at idle, but begins to engage almost immediately above that.

 

Next, the engagement rate, which is controlled by using either 27 or 24 balls on the pressure plate, needs to be slow enough that you can launch the bike at half to 3/4 throttle from a idling standstill in second gear without it stalling and without using the lever.  If it won't do that, you need to slow the rate up by going with 24 instead of 27 balls.  

I love this shit, it's awesome, glad i paid up my 12 months subscription, worth every cent and we should all pay it

Thanks for the info greyracer. I look forward to seeing if one of the things you mentioned is the issue. I will say that it seemed that the clutch was just ever so slightly engaged at idle.

Edited by Roostercogbern31

Yes, that's not unusual, assuming that what you mean is that it will tug a little as you idle with the lever out.  There will be a difference between idling hands-off and idling with the lever pulled in.   I don't think most people would be able to find neutral with the lever out at idle, for example, but it shouldn't be any problem with the lever pulled in.  

 

That's my definition of a serviceably complete release by the clutch.  If you use the right plates and a 40 weight MA2 oil, you can have better than that sometimes, and/or "for a while", but that's really the best you should expect. 

I think all these mods for yz450 depend on rider ability and comfort and conditions. I've not touched my flywheel or clutch setup as of yet, but do notice at times in tight stuff i wish it went slower at idle, not had any clutch issues though, also steep hills in first I tend to spin the rear a bit easy too, do u think a weighted flywheel solves bother issues and if so what weight do I get? Other than that I'm pretty right

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