So..gray and others. New 2t's vs 4t's

So. Talkin woods here. Or trail. I was having a debate with a friend. He swears by 4's. He said 250 2t arent even remotely comparable to 450 4t. Especially in woods he says. He has a fuel injected 450. Says his buddies 2001 250 2t couldnt even climb same sandpit wall as him power was too low.

I was trying to tell him everything i read says 250 2strokes are the the preferred bike for woods and trail over 450 4's.

Did i read this wrong? He said 450 4strokes will beat out a 250 2t in every category in every single way.

Then he went on to say 250 2strokes cant even compete with 250 4strokes.

I know there is a big debate of which is better all the time. But in my mind if they are being compared power wise....there isnt much diff in em. There is a reason 250 2t's are in the same racing class as 450 4t's....right?

Is there really as huge a difference between new 450s compared to new 250 2strokes? Is there really no comparison in power that a 450 will absolutely destroy em?

Edited by soulsedg3

No comparison... Each have their advantages and disadvantages...

 He said 250 2t arent even remotely comparable to 450 4t.

 

He's right. A 2t weighs 30lbs less, less rotating mass, less moving parts, less risk of overheating, less cost to rebuild, more usable power.

Apples to oranges in my opinion. Both are fun but too different to compare. Alot would depend on ridder preference and skill.

He's right. A 2t weighs 30lbs less, less rotating mass, less moving parts, less risk of overheating, less cost to rebuild, more usable power.

So your saying the 250 2stroke is better in woods/trail then a 450 4stroke in your opinion?

Just to clarify my friend was saying his 450 4stroke was leaps and bounds better then any 2stroke in the woods/trail.

Edited by soulsedg3

Preferences is all.  Two-strokes are generally less prone to being stalled than MX four-strokes, but not so much less than purpose-built 4T woods bikes like the WR or the XC-F series.  2T's are lighter and less top heavy, generally, so that can make them less tiring.  On the other hand, none of the existing 2T's can match the torque curve and linear power delivery of a 450 thumper.  The rotating mass thing is BS.  Yes, 2T's have less; no, it doesn't make a difference.

 

No clear "best", it just depends on what you like.

I prefer a 450F in the woods because a) the power delivery is so smooth, and B) they make good power right from the bottom and each gear has a larger useable range.

 

I personally feel one of the biggest mistakes people make when setting up a 450F for the woods is to gear them down.  Gearing the bike down takes away the biggest attributes of the 450, i.e., the smooth power and the large useable range of each gear.

Yup.  I did actually gear mine down, and for desert racing at that, but that was after I swapped in 4th and 5th from a WR trans, and it wasn't that much.  Before that it was 1 tooth higher than stock (at the rear).   MXA would have said it was "to bring third gear in earlier" :smirk: , but it was actually to make 5th usable more often.

Ahhh ok. So conclusion. In the woods my friend on a 450 would have no game breaking advantage on me if i was on a 250 2stroke and we were equal riding abilities.

Aka. If he was a slightly poorer rider the 450 isnt so big a difference it would alliw him to run circles around me like he claims....

You also have to remember that peoples preference of bike and it's abilities have to be factored in the terrain ridden. Your definition of tight woods might be completely different then mine...

On hard pan, muddy or pickin my way up something I like the 450 4t. The 2t are fun and light but like Monk said hard to compare. Rider choice.

 

Don't ban me Gray but I had a lot of fun riden a new KTM 350 in the woods not to long ago and yes it was fun to ride.

On hard pan, muddy or pickin my way up something I like the 450 4t. The 2t are fun and light but like Monk said hard to compare. Rider choice.

Don't ban me Gray but I had a lot of fun riden a new KTM 350 in the woods not to long ago and yes it was fun to ride.

Lol!

Ginger or Mary Anne

 

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Ginger or Mary Anne

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Nice pants....

Two strokes are less work on the trails for sure and also easier on tge tight stuff but cant beat the torque curve of the 450. I geared my 450 down to 12 49 for my tight trails and love it.never stall anymore and got tonnes of torque for all tge little kickers out tgere

I'm actually debating whether to trade one of my 450's on a 250 2t. My race bikes a 2014 YZ450 but I have a 2011 YZ450 sitting in the corner not really being used. I haven't owned a 2t since my '96 yz250 in 2003 and think it might be time to try it out again...

I'm actually debating whether to trade one of my 450's on a 250 2t. My race bikes a 2014 YZ450 but I have a 2011 YZ450 sitting in the corner not really being used. I haven't owned a 2t since my '96 yz250 in 2003 and think it might be time to try it out again...

Nice. I have a 2003 yz450. I told my buddy about wanting to get a brand new 2stroke next year and thats when he went on about two strokes being garbage in every way against 4strokes.

That 2014 yammy you have must work damn good. My 03 yz450 is a freight train for pulling....so cant even imagine the 2014

Ginger or Mary Anne

 

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I'd ride both. I like the 2 stroke 250 more but have an 03 450. I like the simplicity and 2 stroke power better than the 450. To me, this 450 has been the most insanely difficult to learn bike I've ever owned. I've been riding for 35 years and while I'm no Shane Watts or Carmichael, I've always been pretty fast on a local level. I recently got back into off road and realized really quickly this 450 will bite hard if romped on like I used to romp on a 250. It has plain frightened me a few times. Only bike I've ever ridden to do that. It revs fast and hits hard.

The '03 was notoriously abrupt, and was roundly criticized for its beastly nature.  It had a power curve reminiscent of a blown big block Chevy in a '32 Coupe; just excessive low-mid grunt that made the bike a littler tiring, frankly, and put a lot of people off of it.  The '06 was much better done that way.

Haha. Thats what i currently have...the 03. It is in fact a damn beast. Other then my cr500 18year or so ago......it is the single hardest pulling dirtbike ive ever been on.

But ive never tried the new efi 450's. So i dont know if they pull harder then my 03 down low or not. :)

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